I know I have to adapt, but I still miss the days of leg vents and wing windows.

surewhynot said:

I know I have to adapt, but I still miss the days of leg vents and wing windows.

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Yeah, more metal in a fender, than a whole car, engines that you can see over the fender, rebuilding carburetors(shudder), point type ignition.

Nope, don't need the carbs or points back, thank you! I got too used to the reliability/drivability/economy of modern controls. I just miss my fresh air lol.

blacksnapon said:

Yeah, more metal in a fender, than a whole car, engines that you can see over the fender, rebuilding carburetors(shudder), point type ignition.

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And what was wrong with any of that?

Carbs are soooo easy. I got 15.53 MPG on the last long trip with mine after a rebuild a year or so ago. That is not much less than my 01 gets now out on the interstate.

My points were in mine when I bought it nearly 2 years ago. No clue how long they have been in there. My generator works fine.

Some of the old ways are a lot more reliable than people care to remember.

Most of the body panels are about 16 GA. No clue what the newer ones are.

surewhynot said:

Nope, don't need the carbs or points back, thank you! I got too used to the reliability/drivability/economy of modern controls. I just miss my fresh air lol.

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ROLL THE WINDOWS DOWN!

surewhynot said:

Nope, don't need the carbs or points back, thank you! I got too used to the reliability/drivability/economy of modern controls. I just miss my fresh air lol.

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blacksnapon said:

ROLL THE WINDOWS DOWN!

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You know...he has a good point.

Actually, I love the wing glasses and cowl vent.

On my 89 ranger, I swapped 84 Bronco II doors onto it just to get wing glasses. That was easier than retrofitting the ranger doors to accept the windows from the Bronco II.

I hate that they did away with them on trucks.

My boss has an 89 (wing glasses) and a 99 F-150s (1 piece glass). We drive the 89 most of the time when we go somewhere.

The precision required to obtain the stoichiometric ratio (14.7 to 1) is impossible to reach in carbureted and point type ignitions. You have to keep that ratio to even hope to meet emissions specs now. The amount of maintenance needed on carbs and distributors is prohibitive. Computerized ignition-no moving parts, fuel injection-much more precise and reliable. Understanding these new systems, and how they work is the key. Wear on carb bodies, makes reliable/precise fuel delivery over a long period impossible.

I am sure that is true. However, there is not emissions here at all and it is exempt everywhere else (even CA).

As far as fuel mileage...there is not much difference. Not enough to warrant all the modern gizmos and gadgets. This carb could be 51 years old. It is the original model shown in my manuals anyway. I don't know when they stopped making that model. It can't be worn too bad with the fuel mileage it is getting however old it may be.

The carb needed to be rebuilt when the PO bought it nearly 11 years ago. He didn't know how to, so we did it when I got it.

Now...I was not talking about meeting modern emmisions with this. I just said they are far more reliable than people think nowdays. People drove these things for years and years. Some of them are still on the road.

How many years do you think the modern ones with all the electronics and sensors will be around and operational? Honestly, I am curious.

Gunner said:

Ok everybody. Covey up at my place, and we'll posse over to Skandocious's house, and we're GONNA make him READ, by God! He gives us any crap, and we'll make him do Algebra, too.............

Make SURE everybody has their torches, and their pitchforks

Gunner

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Algebra shmalgebra, I do algebra in my sleep. I'm taking advanced calculus now. VECTOR ANALYSIS AND DOUBLE INTEGRALS BITCHS!

Skandocious said:

Algebra shmalgebra, I do algebra in my sleep. I'm taking advanced calculus now. VECTOR ANALYSIS AND DOUBLE INTEGRALS BITCHS!

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Keep pushn us. KEEP it up. We'll show up and make you read POETRY pal...........Don't MAKE me break out the Whitman and the T.S Elliot....

You just keep reading pal. Don't make us show up there...........

We'll do it

We will

Gunner

Brian_B said:

I am sure that is true. However, there is not emissions here at all and it is exempt everywhere else (even CA).

As far as fuel mileage...there is not much difference. Not enough to warrant all the modern gizmos and gadgets. This carb could be 51 years old. It is the original model shown in my manuals anyway. I don't know when they stopped making that model. It can't be worn too bad with the fuel mileage it is getting however old it may be.

The carb needed to be rebuilt when the PO bought it nearly 11 years ago. He didn't know how to, so we did it when I got it.

Now...I was not talking about meeting modern emmisions with this. I just said they are far more reliable than people think nowdays. People drove these things for years and years. Some of them are still on the road.

How many years do you think the modern ones with all the electronics and sensors will be around and operational? Honestly, I am curious.

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Electronic ignition came around in the 70s (in case you're wondering, thats 30 years). Yes, the carburetors were around many years, with the mechanics cussing, trying to keep them running right. Point type ignition was around many years, with the parts stores making money selling distributor plates because of the wear. The manufacturers have to make the vehicle meet emissions requirements no matter where they end up at. If they kept the old ways, they would be bankrupt from all of the fines levied against them. How much experience have you had with carbs anyway? 10?20?30? When you've dealt with thousands, call me.

Never said I had dealt with tons of them. Quite a few when I was younger. This is the only carbed vehicle I currently own.

My dad worked in a garage when he was young and has worked on cars ever since. He had a lot of knowledge about carbs.

Cheby trucks went to electronic ignition in 75, if I am not mistaken.

Anyway, I still say they are more reliable than what people give them credit for. Holly carbs (from my experience) need a lot more tinkering than the more modern edelbrock (I think those are based on the older carter carbs).

I hated the old quadrajunk carbs cheby used to use. That is just my opinion.

As far as points. I have been told they burn. I have never had a set burn in any car I have ever owned. Never...guess that is pretty odd.

Brian_B said:

Ford settled out of court with the family (to hush it up?). At least that is the story that was printed by some newspaper I read.

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Most likely because it's cheaper to settle than to go to court.

A few random thoughts here:

1. re: early 90's Civic. The guys just finished helping the neighbor kid replace the alternator in his civic. anyone who thinks they're easy to work on hasn't tried that particular job. Non-standard bolts (were sheared oof), alternator only reachable from underneath, parts back ordered. Holy crap, simple job turned into a giant PITA. Finally got 'er done using redneck ingenuity- MOPAR belt and a jury-rigged Toyota bracket. Been two weeks, still waiting for the right parts.

2. Vent windows- I wanna the guy that decided these were an unecessary expense.

3. At $100/hr shop rate, it's getting to where you barely want to drive any of these newer rigs out of warranty.... or just trade them when a catastrophic event happens.

My 1972 Volvo 1800E has electronic fuel injection, but has points in the ignition system.

Wow, my head hurt after reading the first 6 pages.

Let me help you out Vince, as I know where your going with this.
Would you rather buy an 03-07 that the cab might have to be pulled off of for ease of DEALERSHIP LEVEL repairs, knowing that the interior of the truck has to be vastly disturbed, and quite likely will never be the same again as it was when it rolled off the assembly line, or

Buying a truck that Ford designed the cab to come off to help aid in a better quality repair job, with less chance of disturbing the interior. (you know the part of the truck where you actually spend most of your time)

As I understand it Ford made a majority of everythig accessable from the outside in, not the old way of inside out. Meaning no more pulling up the carpet, sound barrier foam, disturbing body sealant around fastner covers, ect.

From that standpoint, absolutly the 08 is a much better design, as Ford was actually thinking ahead, "plan for the worst" type of scenario.

The DPF scares me much more than removing the cab. (from the looks of it thought Dodge is having the worst of it right now with the DPF's)

My take on liking points ignition systems better than electronic ignition, for ease of working on them is the equivilant of the boat getting further out to sea in rough water before breaking down.