Cutting out the cat

Bloodhound · Nov 12, 2008

If you are going to tune a 6.0 go with a sct or spartans new phalax tuner. It is based on the dash dac. I don't think it has been released yet.

The sct has been proved on the 6.0 as the safest tuner. All of the plug in chips are not good on the 6.0. They are bad on the tranny and headgaskets.

blackhat620 · Nov 12, 2008

TexasNomad said:
So what can some one do to their truck to make it preform better then stock.
I watching a show were they took a stock f350 to some tuners that plugged in a bully dog tuner and after they were done they could roast those duallys.
I'm not disagreeing with you heck I don't know near as much as yall do to even begin to.
But if these tuners didn't do what they say they do then wouldn't they be more of a cheap self mod like the Air Tornado's and all the other snake Oil mods.
We have been thinking about getting a new F250 she's just going to be a driver and was wondering what would be a good mod to just give it more Um oomph?

So they have changed the fueling patterns (timing and/or duration) to increase power. Yep it roasts the tires but how long will the engine, transmission and drivetrain last before things start to break. They can edit the tape and reshoot scenes when something breaks.
Do they show you how much hotter the trans temp is, EGT, increased mean & peak cylinder pressures etc.

The problem with tuners/chips is yes they are a quick performance mod that anybody can plug in who can turn on a computer. Downside is nothing in the engine, transmission or drivetrain has been upgraded to handle the increased power.

Understand with any tuner/chip you are significantly decreasing the durability of the engine, transmission and drivetrain.

IMO if you want something to go fast build a race car. If you need your vehicle as a daily driver then unless you can afford the repairs and down time keep it fairly stock.

Chips/tuners IMO are like Meth or Crack, cheap to get into but damn expensive in the long run.

What year, engine and transmission F250 are you looking to get?

blackhat620 · Nov 12, 2008

Bloodhound said:
If you are going to tune a 6.0 go with a sct or spartans new phalax tuner. It is based on the dash dac. I don't think it has been released yet.

The sct has been proved on the 6.0 as the safest tuner. All of the plug in chips are not good on the 6.0. They are bad on the tranny and headgaskets.

Agreed as long as the SCT is tuned by one of the few competent 6.0 tuners out there, ie Matt at Spartan or Eric at Innovative etc.

TexasNomad · Nov 12, 2008

blackhat620 said:
So they have changed the fueling patterns (timing and/or duration) to increase power. Yep it roasts the tires but how long will the engine, transmission and drivetrain last before things start to break. They can edit the tape and reshoot scenes when something breaks.
Do they show you how much hotter the trans temp is, EGT, increased mean & peak cylinder pressures etc.

The problem with tuners/chips is yes they are a quick performance mod that anybody can plug in who can turn on a computer. Downside is nothing in the engine, transmission or drivetrain has been upgraded to handle the increased power.

Understand with any tuner/chip you are significantly decreasing the durability of the engine, transmission and drivetrain.

IMO if you want something to go fast build a race car. If you need your vehicle as a daily driver then unless you can afford the repairs and down time keep it fairly stock.

Chips/tuners IMO are like Meth or Crack, cheap to get into but damn expensive in the long run.

What year, engine and transmission F250 are you looking to get?

A 08 250SD 6.4 with the Manuel 6 speed.
Or a P/s Excursion not sure on any the tranny will be have to find one first =D

blackhat620 · Nov 12, 2008

TexasNomad said:
A 08 250SD 6.4 with the Manuel 6 speed.
Or a P/s Excursion not sure on any the tranny will be have to find one first =D

Okay that narrows your choices way down. Manual transmissions are hard to locate without ordering from the factory.

As far as tuning the 6.4 you only have one choice if you want it to live and that is by installing a Spartan Diesel "Phalanx" tuner base cost is $1250 plus you need to upgrade your exhaust so add another $600 for that.
http://spartandieseltech.com/comparison.php

Bully Dog modules and Fords do not play well together, no matter what they tell you. Bully Dog works on the old Dodge cummins engine that was phased out do to the EPA but they do not know squat about Fords.

As far as an Excursion your choices are limited to either a 7.3 with 4R100 or a 6.0 with 5R110 Torqshift. If you get a 6.0 you want a late build 04 motor or an 05 is even better. The early 04 and most 03 6.0 motors had a lot of growing pains.

If you are not hooked on a diesel the 6.8L V-10 is a great motor, and unless you tow alot the diesel will cost you more to operate.

Whatever you get, make sure you get someone to run an Oasis report for you so that you can see the repair history.

TexasNomad · Nov 12, 2008

Awesome! thanks man

If every thing goes as planed I wll be looking in to those.

blackhat620 · Nov 12, 2008

I don't know what your truck needs are, but if you don't tow or haul alot then a diesel is pretty expensive to maintain and fuel costs more than unleaded in recent years. If it is more a daily driver then the V-10 is an excellent choice. Diesels take alot of oil (about 15 quarts), and fuel filters every 10-15K at $35-40 a pop.

The 7.3 has been out of production so long that most have alot of miles on them now. The best years of the 6.0 where they late build 06 (comminization motors) and 07 motors. Avoid the 03 and early 04 6.0 motors like the plague.

The 6.4 had growing pains in the job 1 & 2 motors, the job 3 updates cleaned most things up.

Of all three diesel motors the 6.4 gets the worst fuel economy, anywhere from 2-4 MPG worse than the 7.3, the 6.0 is 1-2 MPG worse than the 7.3. You can thank all of the lousy MPG on the new diesels to the EPA mandated changes. My 06 6.0 gets 14.5 in town, about 16-17 hwy. Towing 8-12 depending on load and MPH.

The 6.4 gets worse mileage than the 6.0 so take that into consideration. The V-10 gets as good of MPG as the 6.4 unless you tow heavy alot.

Skandocious · Nov 12, 2008

My dad had a 2000 F250 4x4 V10 and he generally got 11-12mpg with regular driving, right from the day it was new.

blackhat620 · Nov 12, 2008

Skandocious said:
My dad had a 2000 F250 4x4 V10 and he generally got 11-12mpg with regular driving, right from the day it was new.

Exactly! Which is about what the 6.4 PSD gets in town. The new EPA bloated diesels are damned expensive to operate and maintain. If you do not tow/haul heavy alot, they are hard to justify the cost.

On a side note the best 08-09 diesel engine on the market for light trucks is the Duramax. The PSD is in the middle of the pack and the new Cummins is a POS with nightmare problems. The Blue tech & Dalmar technology in the new Cummins is a real kick in the nuts to the old Cummins fans. Dalmar really led Cummins down a path with the crap they sold them.

TexasNomad · Nov 12, 2008

blackhat620 said:
Exactly! Which is about what the 6.4 PSD gets in town. The new EPA bloated diesels are damned expensive to operate and maintain. If you do not tow/haul heavy alot, they are hard to justify the cost.

On a side note the best 08-09 diesel engine on the market for light trucks is the Duramax. The PSD is in the middle of the pack and the new Cummins is a POS with nightmare problems. The Blue tech & Dalmar technology in the new Cummins is a real kick in the nuts to the old Cummins fans. Dalmar really led Cummins down a path with the crap they sold them.

So i'd get what i'm getting now but with a hell out of lot more power

blackhat620 · Nov 12, 2008

TexasNomad said:
So i'd get what i'm getting now but with a hell out of lot more power

Yep! If you don't need a diesel (ie weekly/monthly heavy towing/hauling) i would take a long hard look at the V-10, same MPG as the 5.4 with a lot more power. And the V-10 is much cheaper to maintain than the 6.0 or 6.4 diesel. Not to mention unleaded is still at least 30-cents per gallon cheaper than diesel.

V10 362Hp, 457Tq

Also if you go with the V10 and order a new one get at least the 4.10 gears and if you are going to tow at all the 4.30 is a better choice as the V10 likes to spin the RPM's and is much happier in the upper RPM range

polarbear · Nov 13, 2008

TexasNomad said:
A 08 250SD 6.4 with the Manuel 6 speed.
Or a P/s Excursion not sure on any the tranny will be have to find one first =D

Wait, wait, wait. The '08 (new emissions compliant) with regen ain't gonna take kindly to any kind of mods.

blackhat620 · Nov 13, 2008

polarbear said:
Wait, wait, wait. The '08 (new emissions compliant) with regen ain't gonna take kindly to any kind of mods.

Actually Spartan and a very few others are doing it successfully, but it is not cheap nor for those who do not understand everything involved and the pros & cons.

Personally i do not like any of the EPA mandated diesel engines, but we are stuck with them. The new EPA diesel engines are going through the same problems and growing pains that the gas engines did in the late 70's & early 80's. Those engines were pigs, constant maintenance and tweaking do to all the EPA changes to the engines that were not well thought out or executed.

Give the EPA diesel engines another 5-10 years and they should have them worked out. I hope :headbang:

IMO if a person does not "really need" a diesel they are much better off with a gas motor and in Ford's camp that is the V10.

If someone really needs a diesel, IMO the Duramax is the best engione of the bunch, but the Chevrolet Allison transmission as stout as the Ford Torqshift, and the Chevy 4WD IFS front suspension is junk for a truck that hauls/tows heavy loads regularly, give me a solid axle 4WD any day in a truck. The 6.4 is not a bad engine but it is not up to par with the Duramax IMO, and since FMC wants to change diesel engines again in 2010 i am not getting a warm fuzzy feeling about dealer/manufacture support for the 6.4 in the future.

So IMO for diesels you have two choices: Duramax (best part of this package) wrapped in a car chassis & drivetrain that does not hold up well in heavy tow/haul conditions or 6.4 (the weak link in this package) wrapped in an outstanding chassis & drivetrain.

blacksnapon · Nov 13, 2008

Be very careful with claims of "Our programmers are undetectable" on the 6.4. Its a different story on the 6.0.

Bloodhound · Nov 13, 2008

I love my 6.0. I have 2 of them. They are more expensive to maintain. My wifes Excursion avarages 17.5 mpg. Mixed highway city driving. hand calaculated. My F350 srw lwb gets a bout 11 in town and 15-16 highway.

Tangi Cowboy · Nov 15, 2008

Bloodhound said:
I love my 6.0. I have 2 of them. They are more expensive to maintain. My wifes Excursion avarages 17.5 mpg. Mixed highway city driving. hand calaculated. My F350 srw lwb gets a bout 11 in town and 15-16 highway.

Hey Robert, fancy seeing you over here, I'm glad you told me about this site

polarbear · Nov 15, 2008

Tangi Cowboy said:
Hey Robert, fancy seeing you over here, I'm glad you told me about this site

And welcome- introduce yourself! :wavey:

Skandocious · Nov 15, 2008

Welcome welcome! :wavey:

Glad to have you.

Bloodhound · Nov 15, 2008

Glad to see that you made it Johnny.

PSDfreak · Apr 3, 2009

Skandocious said:
My dad had a 2000 F250 4x4 V10 and he generally got 11-12mpg with regular driving, right from the day it was new.

2002 AND 12.5 mpg combined

run away from the 6.0L. I know the 06 & 07 is better but there are plenty of good 7.3L trucks out there to choose from, some with lower miles even. If you end up with a 6.0L delete the EGR and pay for the head studs before you start thinking about programmers of any size.

The 6.4L/2008 Torque Shift is holding up very well to 500+ HP in its stock form simply from DPF delete and programming. Its showing to be a very stout motor/tranny combo. Granted mileage is hit and miss with most averaging in the mid to low teens, but its got power to spare and is planted inside an unbeatable truck/chassis

My .02

smilieleghump

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