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Generation 6 1973-1979 F100, F150, F250, F350

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  #21  
Old 04-23-2015, 08:22 AM
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Thanks for all the input and feedback. Not distributor, weeding that one out, and even put a new cap and rotor on. Wondering what else it could be if it were ignition though? Will not stay running at all now.

The crank is hard to turn at some points, getting it to TDC, which is making me wonder if something else could be wrong, but that might just be the compression in the cylinders.

I have confirmed that I put the new top sprocket on at the exhaust stroke versus compression (when it is set at TDC with the harmonic balancer marks, and double checking that by pulling plug number 1 and the valve cover, watching the valve movement on 1, the distributor rotor has to be set 180 off from #1 plug wire to run the engine at all now).

There is also an obvious small leak around various edges of intake manifold gasket where it meets heads and engine block. Though may not be related.

So here is what I am going to do:

Take the front engine apart again and reset sprockets. Will remove valve covers again to watch the valve movement. But also thinking should go ahead and take the top part off as well (intake manifolds and heads), but I will check back here before I do that part. Any specific things I should be looking for in this process that haven't been mentioned yet? If sprocket is 180 off which I presume, that would make sense as to why it keeps going out. Or as someone else mentioned 1 tooth off, or both, 180 and 1 tooth off.
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  #22  
Old 04-23-2015, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Girl In Big Truck View Post
Thanks for all the input and feedback. Not distributor, weeding that one out, and even put a new cap and rotor on. Wondering what else it could be if it were ignition though? Will not stay running at all now.

The crank is hard to turn at some points, getting it to TDC, which is making me wonder if something else could be wrong, but that might just be the compression in the cylinders.

I have confirmed that I put the new top sprocket on at the exhaust stroke versus compression (when it is set at TDC with the harmonic balancer marks, and double checking that by pulling plug number 1 and the valve cover, watching the valve movement on 1, the distributor rotor has to be set 180 off from #1 plug wire to run the engine at all now).

There is also an obvious small leak around various edges of intake manifold gasket where it meets heads and engine block. Though may not be related.

So here is what I am going to do:

Take the front engine apart again and reset sprockets. Will remove valve covers again to watch the valve movement. But also thinking should go ahead and take the top part off as well (intake manifolds and heads), but I will check back here before I do that part. Any specific things I should be looking for in this process that haven't been mentioned yet? If sprocket is 180 off which I presume, that would make sense as to why it keeps going out. Or as someone else mentioned 1 tooth off, or both, 180 and 1 tooth off.
You are correct about the assumption. You will feel resistance at the top of the compression stroke. You are compressing air up against the head. That is normal.
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  #23  
Old 04-23-2015, 12:15 PM
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You really don't have to change the cam sprocket, as its relation to the crank is fine. What you need to do is set the crank to the timing mark, verifying that both valves are closed on #1, then pull the distributor out and rotate the rotor to point to the #1 cylinder. You will want it to be just a bit before when you drop it in so that once it seats, it is right on #1. The only relationship that is wrong is the distributor to cam relationship. The cam to crank timing is fine. If that was wrong, it would never run right.

Now, if you feel there is leakage at the manifold to head, that is an issue if it is a vacuum leak, and will make it run totally crappy, and will potentially vary with temperature.
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  #24  
Old 04-23-2015, 05:12 PM
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Has the cam on the distributor shaft been greased with special grease?
I've seen ungreased cams wear out a points rubbing block in no time. The result of this is intermittent running.

Because these trucks get all sorts of swaps etc... i didn't want to assume the type of ignition. It was never mentioned what type.

This is one of those times...i was there to experience this myself rather than by internet.

Can you take videos and post to YouTube ?
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Last edited by Mil1ion; 04-23-2015 at 05:20 PM.
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  #25  
Old 04-23-2015, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellro View Post
You really don't have to change the cam sprocket, as its relation to the crank is fine. What you need to do is set the crank to the timing mark, verifying that both valves are closed on #1, then pull the distributor out and rotate the rotor to point to the #1 cylinder. You will want it to be just a bit before when you drop it in so that once it seats, it is right on #1. The only relationship that is wrong is the distributor to cam relationship. The cam to crank timing is fine. If that was wrong, it would never run right.
Valves may be clogged or worse. Noticing more as taking apart. Front cover is off, sprockets still aligned, yet something seems off with valve push roads. Will know more when I get the heads off and can inspect the valves and pistons.

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Originally Posted by Fellro View Post
Now, if you feel there is leakage at the manifold to head, that is an issue if it is a vacuum leak, and will make it run totally crappy, and will potentially vary with temperature.
Intake manifold came off way too easy, so intake manifold vacuum leak is already one problem now. And there was previous variance in timing with temp change, after driving, and kept getting worse. (Got to get an aluminum intake manifold, that thing was heavy.. too heavy to even clean.)

Taking a break for the day, work on getting those heads off tomorrow.

0423151424.jpg
Might as well, got this far.....
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Last edited by Girl In Big Truck; 04-23-2015 at 05:46 PM.
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  #26  
Old 04-23-2015, 07:43 PM
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The vacuum advance must be unhooked when you time, if not, you will see a variance in the timing indicated. Not sure if you were aware of that or not.
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  #27  
Old 04-24-2015, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellro View Post
The vacuum advance must be unhooked when you time, if not, you will see a variance in the timing indicated. Not sure if you were aware of that or not.
Speaking of the vacuum advance... there was a vacuum check valve, original, between carb and distributor, even had markings on it for which side is for dist and which side for carb, but it made absolutely no sense. Vacuum is sucking into carb, the vacuum check valve that was on there (I took it off) would not allow suction, but if you suck on the advance from dist, the advance moves.

So why would there even need to be an check valve, and why would it be labeled to keep the vacuum from pulling in the direction it needs to for the dist vac advance?

But none of that made a difference either way during my various test before I pulled everything, but should know how the advance should be hooked up the right way before I put everything back together. I even pulled the hose and plugged in during times it was idling right, and it made no difference in anything, but the advance was working (by sucking on it to see if the internal parts moved)
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Last edited by Girl In Big Truck; 04-24-2015 at 08:16 AM.
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  #28  
Old 04-24-2015, 12:11 PM
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At idle, you don't want/need much advance, it is more for when you hit the gas. You should see higher vacuum when revving, which then advances the internals. The mechanical flyweights will do the advance as the engine speed increases.

As to the check valve, the only reason I know of is to keep it from advancing when cold, but if it had no temperature sensing capabilities, then I am not sure why it would be there to prevent advance. Generally, the advance either goes straight to the carb, or through a temp switch on the thermostat housing or just behind it.
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The workhorse, 86 F250 4x4 6.9 nat aspirated, 3.25 exhaust, custom intake, electric fuel pump, otherwise well used stock... not real pretty but just loves to work!

The other heavy hauler, 92 F350 2wd dually crew cab, flatbed/toolboxes, 92 Cummins VE 12V with intercooler, NV4500 manual

The beater: 88 F250 4x4, 5.8 5 speed
The project ... 1978 F150 4wd shortbed 351 auto

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  #29  
Old 04-24-2015, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellro View Post
As to the check valve, the only reason I know of is to keep it from advancing when cold, but if it had no temperature sensing capabilities, then I am not sure why it would be there to prevent advance. Generally, the advance either goes straight to the carb, or through a temp switch on the thermostat housing or just behind it.
Ok, so, there is the temp valve, or switch, with 2 ports, and I replaced it recently, but was not hooked up that way (so was hooked up wrong). So vacuum hose connection should be as follows then:

distributor - temp switch/port - carb

correct?

And, I figured out other issues now that heads are off (post picks later.

So not only was the intake manifold gasket shot to hell, but also both head gaskets, or there was no head gaskets. The only thing between the heads was the metal gasket but I thought that there was suppose to be a regular gasket on either side of the metal one? And both heads lifted right off...

As far as timing chain and sprockets? As I put them on, and they were set correctly, and on the compression stroke.

My only concern with the new timing chain is that it is a little loose, and should not be. Why is a new chain I put on three weeks ago loose?
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  #30  
Old 04-24-2015, 04:05 PM
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I don't know which engine you have so I'll guess a 360.

These vacuum diagrams may help you.

http://s69.photobucket.com/user/mil1...%20Related/360
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