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Need some opinions.....

Hey guys, long time, no see.

(I used to be known around here as "workin rig")

Anyways, onto the point.

Around 3 years ago i had found a very nice, low mileage 97 F250HD with a 460/E4OD combo. It had 62k when i rolled it off the lot, it now has 81k on it. I bought it mainly to tow my 30ft travel trailer which it does well...

HOWEVER...

The thing has been a total POS since the beginning. I had head gaskets put in at the end of year 1 (1500 bucks), timing cover/chain done beginning of year 2 (500 bucks), and now, at the beginning of year 3 the thing has devloped a slight bottom end knock.

Im at odds on what to do with it. I just got it paid off and its the first time since ive been 18 i havent had a vehicle payment (ill be 29 in august). Im not sure exactly how bad its gonna be this time price wise, but i just had new ball joints and brake lines put on it (500 bucks) as well as new BFG A/Ts (1000 bucks).

So as you can see i got loads of money into the thing as it is.

What do yall think i should do? Rebuild the bottom end, swap it with a junkyard motor and prey, or say screw it and jam it full of lucas and trade it off?

Getting rid of it is kind of a last resort, but its moving up the list as i look at autotrader and see all these mid 00s superduties going for under 10k.

Also, as a side note, the truck itself is in beautiful shape, just a bit of usual rust starting (hardly noticiable) and the trans and rear end function fine.

Also, if i went the superduty route...how would a 5.4 drag around a 7000 lb camper? Or would you hold out for the 10. (I do not want a diesel).

Thanks in advance
 

polarbear

just growing older not up
12,878
607
Boring, Oregon
Sorry to hear this. But you learned an ugly secret- those ultra low mileage used rigs can be a giant PITA. Lots of short hops and/or extended periods without use can raise all sorts of hell with mechanical items. Grandma in her 5,000 mi/yr Buick is putting the equivalent of 50,000 hwy miles worth of wear and tear on internals going to the grocery store, bank, pharmacy, and church every week. I'll take a higher mileage, driven daily example any day if it's been maintained and I can talk to/see the owner. The other thing I've seen is the older rigs seem to turn completely to crap if they aren't driven almost daily. Not sure why, but seen it enough times to be a believer.

re: mid 2000's SD's. They sure aren't close to $10K around here- at least if they don't have 200k miles on them. I have to preface my comments with this remark- I LOVE Ford trucks. But everyone screws up now and then- including Ford. The 5.4's and V10's from 2000-2005 had a nasty habit of spitting sparkplugs, and the 5.4's hopelessly underpowered. The 6.0's came one of two ways- golden, or the engine from hell. No middle ground, and no way of telling which one it's going to be. The only way I'd look at a SD in this vintage would be a 7.3 (2000-2003 mid year). Yeah, I know it's a diesel, but in a Ford of this vintage, it was the best option.

Dodge had a decent V10 in these years, but it gave new meaning to the words "gas hog." The Cummins was golden, but both motors generally came with an Automatic Transmission that was as durable as a potato chip. You've been warned. Chevy had a big block with an Allison that was pretty stout... but the chassis was weak compared to Fords of the time period.

Me? If I had to make a payment, I'd be buying as new as I could possibly afford with a warranty. That way, at least you know what your expenses will be on a monthly basis. That being said, prices of new(er) trucks are breathtaking.

Good luck.
 
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CowboyBilly9Mile

Charter Member
7,118
442
USA
......yada yada.....
What do yall think i should do? ....etc etc.....

I think you need to acknowledge the learning of a valuable life lesson and steer clear of a repeat. Here's the deal....you bought a gasp...17 year old vehicle off of a used car lot. A car lot. 17 year old anything. Hello. Something that old is to be bought off of a private party with cash, not from a seconds car lot. So why do those vehicles exists on the seconds car lots? Very simple, they exist for the purpose of fulfilling the vehicle needs of people who have next to nothing down, people who can't save up and buy older vehicles with cash, crap credit, etc etc. These seconds lots, short of people buying $500-$1000 turds with all the cash they can scrape up, this is why seconds lots exist, to get broke people into a maybe somewhat decent used car. Their goal (dream) is to get a down payment from a buyer that is equal to wha they are in a vehicle for, the rest is used for burden on the business and then their paycheck. Upshot on this deal is, and even if you just happened to like the vehicle, don't buy off of the seconds car lots, buy those vehicles with cash from a private party.
 
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It really wasnt a finacial issue why i bought it. I set out looking for a truck like this. I wanted a 92-97 style, originally i was looking for a 351/5sp but i questioned the 351s ability to do what i needed it to do. I could have bought something newer, but nothing really built by anyone in the past 5-10 years appeals to me. I do like the 99-07 superduty, but, the tritons do make me nervous. Theres no way id touch a 6.0 and i dont want the 7.3 for the fact diesels are a pain in the ass.

The place i bought it from pretty much only sells nice (or so i thought) 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. Salesman told me it was an 1 owner who traded it for a cummins, the history report supported this statement.

I also will not put out 50k fod a new truck that honestly, i think are ugly and have way to many techno gizmos.

Ive always had older stuff, since ive been 16 ive had close to 20 vehicles, 90% of them ford trucks that were sold due to me just being tired of them. Never had an issue with any of them really. So that is also part of the reason i bought an older one

I get what your saying, however assuming i bought it cause i was to broke to buy something else is frankly, a bit insultive.

Bottom line, i posted this for opinions on the three options listed in the original post. I know that i got burned on it.

Polarbear i apperciate your input. The superduties around here go cheap, espicially gas ones. The trucks ive found are all inbetween 100-145k miles, also, im looking at regular cab, somewhat no frills trucks.
 
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dustybumpers

don't play well w others
Look for something 06 or newer
My 06 v10 in my E 450 will yank anything I want, and is not real bad on fuel
Way better than the 94 C 350 with the 460........
 

CowboyBilly9Mile

Charter Member
7,118
442
USA
Not everyone that buys off of a seconds lot is broke; thought I injected something to cover that base. The point of the post was to make note of who the target buyer is for those vehicles on those lots. I say this based on people I've know over the years that have bought (and paid 29.6% interest) off those lots, a few people that have set up and run a used car lot (it sucks when a buyer defaults and the car turns up half way across the country, lol) and then the people who liked a vehicle on one of those lots, they bought it, and then things came to be later down the road.

*The guy I know what was paying 29.6% got lucky, a deer ran out in the road and he rolled it, it was almost a blessing. The bad news was, the insurance company didn't want to pay the car lot what he owed for it. Hmmm......
 

polarbear

just growing older not up
12,878
607
Boring, Oregon
Not everyone that buys off of a seconds lot is broke; thought I injected something to cover that base. The point of the post was to make note of who the target buyer is for those vehicles on those lots. I say this based on people I've know over the years that have bought (and paid 29.6% interest) off those lots, a few people that have set up and run a used car lot (it sucks when a buyer defaults and the car turns up half way across the country, lol) and then the people who liked a vehicle on one of those lots, they bought it, and then things came to be later down the road.

*The guy I know what was paying 29.6% got lucky, a deer ran out in the road and he rolled it, it was almost a blessing. The bad news was, the insurance company didn't want to pay the car lot what he owed for it. Hmmm......

It's called GAP Insurance, and there's a reason for it on installment contracts.
 
I didnt buy it at a buy here/pay here lot. I bought it at a regular used lot with a loan from first merit bank.

I would never buy from a buy here pay here, i looked at a 2000 expedition once on one of them lots, like 3k down and 100/wk for the next 5 years. Final price was like 15k. I about choked.

Sorry for the mis understanding
 

CowboyBilly9Mile

Charter Member
7,118
442
USA
It's called GAP Insurance, and there's a reason for it on installment contracts.

And that's what saved his butt in the end, although he didn't initially realize/understand that it was embedded in the contract. Like the 29.6% interest, he didn't understand how he'd only made a few hundred dollars progress on the principle before the vehicle got totaled. I tried to help, when I heard that near usury loan shark rate, I explained the "rule of 72" to the guy, and down the road I showed him how to use on online amortization calculator. Of course family, friends and myself are a bit rough on the guy and for good reason, he appears to mean well but ultimately is not able to learn a damn thing in the car buying and finance department and gets f*cked by sleezy salesmen on these seconds lots (name brand lots = better used cars, but not affordable, esp with crap credit). Like a lot of people, he's making mistakes he can't afford, but this time he did buy a used Expy off (damn it) a seconds lot with.....his tax refund (cash, a step in the right direction, despite the not to wise way of saving it up). A month later he still doesn't know what engine it has and he bought a Ford, despite telling me before buying it that he hates Fords but bought it because it had 3rd row seating. Go figure. Incurable. [confused]
 
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wizzard351

ride'n on 35's
2,145
120
wi
if its rust free id stay with the 460 truck and have the engine rebuilt. with the spark plug and timing chain problems with the 5.4's id stay away from them. well that's the reason we got a newr f150 that has the new 5.0. cant beat tried and true 460. I wish I never sold my 460 truck
 

Fellro

Moderator
Staff member
Personally, if everything is strictly engine related, and the chassis and body are clean, I would drop a fresh motor in or a used one with a guarantee or way to validate condition. Of course, around here, rust free by itself is valuable, even not running. I also do all my own work, so labor is something I don't think of a lot, unless it ends up adding up... Hiring an install, I would recommend a fresh motor with warranty. But that is just my own opinion.

On a side note, my 88 with a 351W has surprised me with its capabilities. It has hauled 12,000+ pounds of hay bales just fine as needed, and the rear gears really aren't conducive to towing. It does have a manual transmission though. I havene't actually measured the oil pressure, but the oil light comes on regularly, but no low oil pressure type noises, as has done it for years. It has no easy life, as it is not a daily, it is a work truck. It gets worked.
 

DNFXDLI

The Token Canadian
Staff member
I agree with Roger and Bert on keeping it etc.
 
Personally, if everything is strictly engine related, and the chassis and body are clean, I would drop a fresh motor in or a used one with a guarantee or way to validate condition. Of course, around here, rust free by itself is valuable, even not running. I also do all my own work, so labor is something I don't think of a lot, unless it ends up adding up... Hiring an install, I would recommend a fresh motor with warranty. But that is just my own opinion.

On a side note, my 88 with a 351W has surprised me with its capabilities. It has hauled 12,000+ pounds of hay bales just fine as needed, and the rear gears really aren't conducive to towing. It does have a manual transmission though. I havene't actually measured the oil pressure, but the oil light comes on regularly, but no low oil pressure type noises, as has done it for years. It has no easy life, as it is not a daily, it is a work truck. It gets worked.

This. My truck was in similar condition as OP. Dumped almost $5k into it, brakes, new front axle, new gas tanks/pumps. Mouse had made a nest in tailgate, hood, and also fan blower motor, was leaking tranny fluid badly, brake booster wasn't set right. Still need to get rear main seal fixed.

If the body is good you can usually pick up a used engine and tranny for cheap, even drop them in yourself if you have an engine jack.
 
I agree with Roger , Bert and Duncan on keeping it ........ you've had the truck long enough to know the issues and once you've freshened up the engine it should last you a while. No disrespect to anyone but i'd only ever buy new or near new with the idea of turning it over before the warranty ran out ....... i say this as a result of seeing newer (10 years)vehicles come through my workshop that are just uneconomic to fix due to the complexities introduced by modern electronics whereas 80's and 90's vehicles are really only limited by parts availability.
 
This. My truck was in similar condition as OP. Dumped almost $5k into it, brakes, new front axle, new gas tanks/pumps. Mouse had made a nest in tailgate, hood, and also fan blower motor, was leaking tranny fluid badly, brake booster wasn't set right. Still need to get rear main seal fixed.

If the body is good you can usually pick up a used engine and tranny for cheap, even drop them in yourself if you have an engine jack.

Get your money's worth ,run it like you stoled it!....smilieeatndrink
 
Sorry for the late response but ive been busy, traded the ol 460 in for a brand new tundra....

Jokeing.

I decided to keep it. My bro in law who isnt scared of pulling an EFI engine is gonna help me yank it. Assuming the block doesnt need machining (which 10k ago when i had the heads done it looked great), i can get a crank, all rods and main bearings, full gasket set as well as an oil pump through summit for about 500 bucks.

This leads me to another question however...

1- Are high volume oil pumps worth it on a stock engine? Seeing as how this things main duty in life is to tow my travel trailer, running out of O/D with 4.10s at 60-65 its turning some decent RPM...yay or nay?

Also, would it be worth the money to swap in an RV cam? Its plenty strong now, but while i got it out i may do it if its worthwile.
 

wizzard351

ride'n on 35's
2,145
120
wi
I use hi volume pumps on every engine I take apart. the basic rering job normaly don't last that many miles. I think the last one we did here was a 300 and I think it made it 25 or 30 thousand before started blowin oil out the breather tube. stay away from box store engines haven't seen one of those get over 20,000 on them
 
Pry wont even touch the rings unless block maching is needed. The things only got 82k on it. Pry just do the bottom end and all gaskets.
 

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