Jurgen just install seperate just make sure you align the clutch beforehand. You also may wanna consider putting the rear up in the air soe you can spin the driveshaft with the tranny in first gear to help line your input shaft up when putting the motor together... Fellro, I never use the bolts to draw the tranny against the motor either.....always give it a good amount of shake n push to get the surfaces together......

flareside_thunder said:

Jurgen just install seperate just make sure you align the clutch beforehand. You also may wanna consider putting the rear up in the air soe you can spin the driveshaft with the tranny in first gear to help line your input shaft up when putting the motor together... Fellro, I never use the bolts to draw the tranny against the motor either.....always give it a good amount of shake n push to get the surfaces together......

Click to expand...

yupp i think thats what i will do.. i will move the gearbox a little back and bolt the engine in place then push the gearbox in..

Definitely lift the whole truck up on stands. I usually will leave the trans in gear a bit so I can move the input with the output so I know it lines up ok. It is nice to have a little room to work as well. Even my 4x4's are too close to the ground for me when I am on a creeper. Neither have any additional lift of course...

http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/hoist1.jpg
If you ain't got a hatch, it ain't my fault!

http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/hoist2.jpg
That's the bottom of a washing machine the T18's settin' on.

http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/guidepins.jpg
Just got done using all that stuff on my '90 F250 parts truck to
pull the ZF by myself, no sweat. 7/16-14 threaded bolts.
I use the guide pins to pull it and to put it back in both.

The 351w balanced perfect, both with or without the flywheel.
(I'm used to my 360FE being rear-end heavy

Sorry, no pictures of the ZF being pulled. :/

Oh yeah, the T18 as shown is about 150 pounds and the ZF...
complete with built-on bell housing is about the same but up
to 5 pounds lighter. Hey, I'm using a bathroom scales, that's
as accurate as it gets around here. LOL

The ZF surprised me, I though it felt heavier than the T18 but
turns out it's just bulkier and fooled me.

Alvin in AZ

On a 2WD, the M5OD really isn't that hard to pull. 351 or 302 should balance fairly nicely on the engine mounts when the M5 is removed (my 302 did). I had to put in a rear main seal on my 302, so pulling the tranny wasn't an option. Going back in, I had to put a floor jack under the harmonic balancer to tilt the engine back just a frog hair. The only reason for the floor jack is because I don't have three arms to hold the engine back while fitting up the tranny. I found out it rolled forward just a wee bit, and just enough to make it a pain to line up the input shaft of the tranny. Bell was hitting the firewall, and I couldn't lift the tail high enough to align the input shaft with the disc splines. Once I leveled the engine, though, the M5 slipped in very nicely. I didn't have to diddle anything. I DID use a clutch disc alignment tool when I re-installed the clutch to make sure there wasn't any misalignment of the disc with the pilot bearing. (This was old VW experience) Those are plastic and cheap ($6 at Autozone IIRC), but worth their weight in gold.

As for what I'd do with the M5? If you want to leave it on the engine, you're going to have to take everything except the bell housing bolts loose anyway, and there's only 6 of those. You're certainly not going to save much time. I don't think you're going to get the tail mount off the cross member without removing the cross anyway. I might be wrong there, though. If you didn't empty the tranny first, but take it out sans engine, you're less likely to spill tranny fluid all over creation because you can keep the M5 tilted slightly forward, and the fluid stays in. Just don't do like I did, and forget there's nothing but duct tape keeping the fluid in. Putting your head in a puddle of Mercon is NOT nice, especially with long hair. I think you'll find it a lot easier handling only the weight of the engine, or only the weight of the tranny, not to mention that's a LONG tranny from bell to tail. The real key here, though, is USE A TRANNY JACK!!!. They're not that expensive, and better yet, someone you know that services their own cars probably has one. You could even rent one if you didn't want it later. The tranny jack, if it's a good one, will have adjusters on it to roll the tranny side to side, and front to back, and chains to secure it to the jack. The tranny jack is low profile with a very wide footprint, and is usually relieved around 300 lbs so you can't force the tranny through the floor boards or break the bell housing. You can align the bell PERFECTLY to the dowels then. They're MUCH safer than balancing acts on inverted jack stands bolted to a standard floor jack. I don't think I want an M5 landing on me. When I was younger and stupider, I did bench press a C5 balancing the tail on my knees and shins under a Mercury Monarch to re-install it. I'm older now, and my body reminds me of that stupidity. Pain makes us smarter.

Fellro said:

It really isn't any different in the frame than it is out of the frame to hook
them up. Might be a bit easier out, but still doable in frame if you are careful
and smart about it.

Click to expand...

There's no contest with my system, it's way easier -in- the frame.

I use the guide pins and the frame+cross member and the transmission acts
like its on rails. No kidding. Just shove them together slick as anything.

I've never used a transmission jack, but looking at them from "my side of it"
I'd say my way is easier. Sure enough a lot cheaper. If I were to use a
transmission jack, I'd still want to use my dumb ol' guide pins. LOL

So what's the point of the cool super adjustable transmission jack then?

Alvin in AZ
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/guidepins.jpg

To lift the jack into place? Guide pins have been around for a long time. I might not be a weakling, but I refuse to manually lift a trans into place for safety reasons. I do everything myself, with no helpers, and trying to muscle a 200+ pound trans in place is not a smart thing. Way too easy to have something go wrong and hurt you seriously. I only recently have the trans jack, as it is a friend's, and it needed fixed. I used to simply pull the pad off my $50 floor jack and put a plate on it that would support the trans. I made different ones for different uses, the one with just a plate was for cars, the one that had a lift and cradle was for manual trannies, and the one that had the lift and flat plate was for automatic trucks.

To each their own I guess but I like to put it all together out on the floor or bench, and then slide the whole works in place. Of course I almost always pull the front clip so I can get all the rust and crud out while I'm doing a build and I can make any repairs to the frame and body. Gives me good access to the cab mounts, floors and exhaust, too. Takes a little more time but I hate doing it twice and if I'm gonna spend the time I'd just as soon it be easy time!

No rust to fix here!

And a T18 only weighs a measly 150lbs. :/
My '90 ZF weighs in a little less than that even. ~145#
What's a flimsy little Mazda (M5OD) weigh?

IMO, you guys are making it out to be a bigger deal than it is. :/
YMMV

Alvin in AZ

Old_Paint said:

On a 2WD, the M5OD really isn't that hard to pull.
351 or 302 should balance fairly nicely on the engine
mounts when the M5 is removed (my 302 did).

Click to expand...

Truer words were never said, IMO.

My 351w did too and still is! LOL
Been checking it out and wondering how I should go about
tying the sucker down before I tow it ~100 miles.

It almost seems stable enough as-is. LOL
...but I know better.

Alvin in AZ

Alvin in AZ said:

Truer words were never said, IMO.

My 351w did too and still is! LOL
Been checking it out and wondering how I should go about
tying the sucker down before I tow it ~100 miles.

It almost seems stable enough as-is. LOL
...but I know better.

Alvin in AZ

Click to expand...

Perhaps find a way to strap a 2x4, a cable, or something across the front under the harmonic balancer, and support from the top. That should keep the fan out of the radiator, anyway. Those mounts are pretty tough, but dunno if I'd want to depend on them to hold the engine without the third point to keep it from rocking front to back.

I wasn't insinuating anyone was wrong in their tried/true means of doing something. I was more suggesting safety by using the right tools and equipment. I've learned the hard way a few times with taking shortcuts and not using the right equipment. Worst I've had so far is a very crushed foot. I'm just not real fond of transmissions falling on me, or being damaged if I'm lucky enough to get out of the way fast enough. Nothing like a cracked bell housing to bring an otherwise well paced project to a screeching halt. On a T-18, yeah, just replace the bell. If an M5, though, umm, BIG problem. The bell is ALSO the tranny housing. All one piece. The tail shaft housing and the shifter lid is all that comes off that bugger from the outside. Crack the bell on that, and you're hunting a whole new tranny housing.

As the other user said, to each his own. I don't pay the hospital bills for other folks, just my own. I just hate to see folks get hurt when it could have been avoided for a few bucks.