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Old 10-13-2017, 12:34 AM
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The Boy Scouts now accepting Girls

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The Boy Scouts of America announced on Wednesday that it will admit girls into the Cub Scouts starting next year and establish a new program for older girls using the organization’s same curriculum.

In the historic move, Cub Scout dens — the smallest unit — will be single-gender, either all boys or all girls. Cub Scout packs, which are larger and include a number of dens, will have the option to welcome both genders if they choose.
The Boy Scouts’ board of directors voted unanimously for the change on Wednesday.

“This decision is true to the BSA’s mission and core values outlined in the Scout Oath and Law. The values of Scouting — trustworthy, loyal, helpful, kind, brave and reverent, for example — are important for both young men and women,” Michael Surbaugh, the group’s chief executive, said in a statement.

He added that “we believe it is critical to evolve how our programs meet the needs of families interested in positive and lifelong experiences for their children. We strive to bring what our organization does best — developing character and leadership for young people — to as many families and youth as possible as we help shape the next generation of leaders.”
Our youngest daughter would've joined in a heartbeat. She had zero interest in baking cookies- she wanted to go hiking, camping, and learn outdoor survival skills. Vastly different programs at that time (can't comment on what's going on currently). Our troop was adventure-oriented- two campouts a month, in a variety of different venues. Local GS Troop was doing three campouts a year, and two of them in conjunction with our troop.

In all fairness, putting together (and maintaining) a set of all-weather camping gear for 30-40 kids is not a cheap proposition. Keep in mind it rains and snows here, and we didn't let that slow us down, but we had appropriate equipment for just about any weather eventuality. We were fortunate to have resources at our disposal, along with a group of very dedicated parents.

All's well that ends well- the youngest is the kiddo that's a Forestry Engineer for the BPA, and the oldest is a site manager for a resort on the San Juan Islands. I'd have to think that their outdoor interests as kids partially led them to their current careers. I personally look back at my years as a Scout Leader fondly- it was a great run.

I'm going to go out on a limb here (like that's something new ) and say this may not be all a bad thing. Consider: going outdoors, getting wet, muddy, cold, and breaking a nail on the trail isn't every girl's idea of a good time. For them, Scouting would be a terrible fit. But for some girls, especially if they live west of the Rockies where an outdoor lifestyle comes with the territory, Scouting could offer them most of the benefits it currently offers the boys. And the BSA already offers co-ed programs for the older kids, so it wouldn't be that big of a reach to modify that for younger kids. The biggest challenge I see would be staffing- a lot of moms would have to get involved.
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Old 10-13-2017, 08:50 AM
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I agree Ernie...I'm seeing a lot of 'well boys and girls learn differently and need different development paths' and 'boys act differently around girls'. To which I say, show me which two men learned or developed exactly the same. And gone are the days where women 'just stay in their lane', I don't see how young boys being challenged by young girls is a bad thing, and millions of school boys manage just fine on a daily basis. The way I see it, if a child can hit the necessary qualifications/requirements to prevent diluting the organization...what's the big deal. Unless someone tells me they're going to lower standards for girls or the only thing being taught by the BSA is how to hold a cheerio under water from 3ft away, I don't see how this isn't a good thing for everybody.
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Old 10-13-2017, 12:59 PM
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This really stinks. I'm 100% against it.

Change the girl scouts - let boys be boys.

This is a revenue decision by the Boy Scouts, hoping to increase membership. In the long run it will hurt them. "Boys only" is increasingly not allowed in almost every avenue of life, and this is yet another victim to girls wanting to be in the "boys club."

What little boy wants to be in the "boy scouts" when girls sign up? I'll tell you what - I can imagine a (not unreasonable) set of circumstances where a group of girls decide to all join up at once and now the girls outnumber the boys 4-3.

The BS's began their decline when the caved to allow men with same-sex attraction to be scout leaders, and will continue to decline by letting girls in.

Ryan
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Old 10-13-2017, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by LEB Ben View Post
I agree Ernie...I'm seeing a lot of 'well boys and girls learn differently and need different development paths' and 'boys act differently around girls'. To which I say, show me which two men learned or developed exactly the same. And gone are the days where women 'just stay in their lane', I don't see how young boys being challenged by young girls is a bad thing, and millions of school boys manage just fine on a daily basis. The way I see it, if a child can hit the necessary qualifications/requirements to prevent diluting the organization...what's the big deal. Unless someone tells me they're going to lower standards for girls or the only thing being taught by the BSA is how to hold a cheerio under water from 3ft away, I don't see how this isn't a good thing for everybody.
I highlighted some outstanding points you made.

The BSA isn't just about camping. As a formal leadership development structure, it's hard to beat. From being able to lead a patrol of 8 to 10, or troop from 20 to 100+ that's a different type of opportunity. The honor society of BSA (Order of the Arrow) allows for leadership development that goes from a lodge as small as 200 to as big as 5,000+ to section leadership which ranges from 2500 to over 10,000. If you become the national chief, you sit on the national BSA board and are a voting member, representing the 2 million youth that are in the BSA.

If there's another group that offers that type of leadership development, that's as widespread and available, with as much impact, I'd be interested in hearing about it.
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Old 10-13-2017, 01:37 PM
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Change the girl scouts
I do agree, that's the actual problem. But, if an organization isn't fulfilling the need, I'm all for going some place that can.

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"Boys only" is increasingly not allowed in almost every avenue of life, and this is yet another victim to girls wanting to be in the "boys club."
Again...I guess I don't see the issue if BSA isn't diluted and every member hits standard requirements. Now, if the girls are only expected to accomplish 50% of what the boys do, I whole heartedly agree.

If you replaced 'Boys' with 'Whites' and 'Girls' with 'Blacks' in your statement, would you feel the same way???

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Originally Posted by O'Rattlecan View Post
What little boy wants to be in the "boy scouts" when girls sign up? I'll tell you what - I can imagine a (not unreasonable) set of circumstances where a group of girls decide to all join up at once and now the girls outnumber the boys 4-3.
One could argue that diversity would improve the development of the young boys, given today's environment of women being bread winners and in position of power.

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Originally Posted by O'Rattlecan View Post
The BS's began their decline when the caved to allow men with same-sex attraction to be scout leaders, and will continue to decline by letting girls in.

Ryan
I'll agree there. And for the record, I have no issues with the honesty of someone saying 'we just want a boys' club...I respect that. But very very very few arguments I've seen/heard call that spade a spade.
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Old 10-13-2017, 02:00 PM
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what i find funny is while now the girls can sign up to be in the "boy scouts" it doesnt hold true for the opposite way.. Boy's cant joint the girl scouts if they wanted to as it is still forbidden..

personally i dont care if either wanted to be in either camp.. but i remember when this first came up it started with a "tomboy" girl wanting to join and do the adventurous stuff the boys did that the girls werent.. mainly due to the as previously mentioned different curriculum's between the 2 camps.. then the feminist groups going into it stating it wasnt sexist and deserved gender equal rights and all that crap. but where it really got the momentum was when the TG kids wanted to join the opposite camps.. thats when them 3 letter groups got into it to push it to a head...

again personally i dont care which one the kid wants to join.. but if they really want to make it about equality and all that crap.. then the boys should be allowed to join the girls too..
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Old 10-13-2017, 02:39 PM
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I was a Scout leader for years. I am torn on this I think if they called it just scouting I wouldn't have any issue at all with it.
Over the years I have seen many of the Boy scout leaders in other packs are not Men. Many areas they are all female and with this trend I saw the writing on the wall.

I disassociated with the Scouts when they allowed Homosexuals in, it goes totally against the scout oath. All the PC stuff is going to far.
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Old 10-13-2017, 04:47 PM
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Oddly, I think this more a direct result of the Girl Scouts not changing the program to meet the expectations and needs of a modern-day teen girl. I saw this first hand in a household with a scout in it (and, in my case, a Scout Leader), and a younger (female) sibling that would have given anything to be part of that program.

As a reminder, pics of that younger sibling's office. In college, she was one of two young women in the country pursuing a career in Forestry Engineering- something not unnoticed by the Weyerhaeuser Family Foundation when they generously handed out scholarships for five years running. Bottom line- the world's changing, and it ain't all bad. BTW- she was a BSA Camp Counselor for two summers in HS.
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Old 10-16-2017, 09:20 AM
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I've been associated with the BSA all of my life(my dad was a professional scouter), I came up through the program and I am currently serving as Scoutmaster for my son's troop. I admit to having mixed feelings about it like most folks because I don't like change and "that's not the way it was when I was in the program".

But in the end I don't have a problem with it. As previously mentioned, girls are already involved in scouts at the higher levels via Explorers and Venturing and what they bring to camp programs is great.

I have a friend who is very involved in the program as the father of 3 girls. His motivation? To be involved in a program that develops the kind of young men he would want his daughters to marry. I haven't talked to him about this but I feel certain that if the opportunity had been available for his girls, they would have jumped at it for the same reason, to provide the same character building opportunities for them.
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Old 10-16-2017, 01:21 PM
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If you replaced 'Boys' with 'Whites' and 'Girls' with 'Blacks' in your statement, would you feel the same way???
Nah. Some divisions are okay, and others are not. I know you said "no two people develop the same" but generally speaking, there are stark differences between the sexes, whether or not it's politically correct to say that. I can see why they were educated separately for eons! Not only do they learn differently, but the girls are an enormous distraction in the classroom. (As a former teenage boy, I believe I have standing to say this. Especially the way the girls dress these days - aka street walkers).

But I believe human nature is why boys & girls are different. And although there are some minor differences between generic races, we all share a common human nature. But as you look across worldwide cultures - we do know that women are women, and men are men.

Ryan
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