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Rings not seated?

1976 F-250 460 with Edlebrock 750 on top. First rebuild; 35-40K on it in terms of mileage. Presently using a quart of oil ( use Rot-tella 15-40 and only that since I had it built) in 185 miles. No smoke! Only smokes on start up and even then a slight blue hint of color. According to the shop that I had it taken to , he tested only two cylinders(holes). both showed 120 compression when dry. When wet compression shot up to 155. He's claiming it is rings not being seated. In the last 14 months it has presented itself with this issue and I wasn't all that concerned. Now things have changed as I may have to move and this truck is the only means to get me to where I want to be. First things first: aside from doing a full tear down on it, what are my short term fixes, if any? I've read other threads in other forums which indicate Bon-Ami cleaning powder? which I disagree with. Or the use of Marvel Mystery Oil ( I've no idea why) . This engine has a lot of power left in it and its not abused or over used. If anything its under used. I only use it for long hauls and heavy loads like dragging my 38 foot fifth wheel from point to point. I could really use some help. Please.
 
Actually the cam is not stock. It is an RV cam,( of sorts) I have the numbers on it somewhere in my logbook for it ll. I did put in an adjustable crank sprocket for it s I did the research and found that the stock 460's came 4 deg. retarded off the factory floor. So in order to get the toque out of it ( with the cam in mind ) its now at ( and don't quote me on this as I had some help putting that aspect together) 4 deg's or bout that. It doesn't smoke going down the road and it ONLY smokes a very faint amount first thing in the morning and that I can attribute to guides; probably dripping down past the stem cap seals. My main and major concern is, where the blazes s the oil going when its not showing on the ground or in the air behind me as I'm running down the road. Now bear in mind I hadn't changed the PCV for a while, ( my bad) and I did that very recently along with the air filter as it was , ahem, heavy with oil. Not alot but it was enough to warrant doing it as well. So now this guy in a shop only tested the two holes, and in my opinion I think he was looking to make a little money out of me by declaring the rings not being seated. IF, that were true then, the 155 PSI on compression on being wetted with oil wouldn't be showing. It'd be a lot less. So with the cylinder(hole) being wetted with oil AFTER the dry comp check indicates to me at least , that the rings are in fact sealing. Or at least that's the way I see it. Suggestions??
 
Your question

Was is a professional rebuild? Cylinders bored out, etc?

Yes. Absolutely!!!. Crank ground new pistons rings bearings the whole nine yards and noting was left to chance. Even the distributor shaft the seals and everything else I could get at and since it was an out of frame item, everything got new . And I do mean all of it. the only thing I can possibly think of is, since I do use and have use nothing but Rotella 15-40 since day one on this is, that thick of oil tends to take a while to actually get back into the pan. So it is possible, ( but somehow I'm thinking not) that the "missing quart" is actually hung in the cam and valve gallery slowly making its way back to the pan. I've seen that happen on diesels that I've done work on and it seems to be just the way that Rotella is. I may be all wet on that but...it's just a guess.:headbang:
 
It was bored out, heads fully done, all bearings replaced with new ( as the crank was also ground), a new camshaft, new pistons and rings, new oil pump, new exhaust system ( NOT headers).
 
Bored out .020 on holes; .010 on crankshaft; part number 353902 Jegs Camshaft and the lift on the int. is 204 and exhaust is 216 for duration of .050 .
H-260-2 cam and lifters( jegs numbers). Total mileage since this was done is 37,213 miles. Only within the last 1,000 miles has this issue cropped up. The question is : Why is it using a quart of oil in 187 miles?
 
Oh kay. Here's my plan of action while awaiting some replies that may lend themselves to which way to go on this beastie. Install new plugs as the ones that are in there are the same ones I've had in it for some time. While they have been in the engine his amount of time, they have been pulled ( three times) , and cleaned real well. During those three times I did not take note of any extreme oil fouling or deposits aside from the normal tan-ish light brown deposits which from experience tells me that they're doing their job. I will be replacing the oil and oil filter within the next few days along with the plugs so as to start fresh. Fram DG-8 s my preference ad that's what will be used for the filter as well as Rotella 15W40 oil. In the mean time if anyone has any clues or suggestions as to what to look at or look for , I'd sure appreciate the input/replies. I've got Tejon Pass Calif to climb up and over as well as the entire length of US 97 from the Tri-Cities area ( Washington State and down on through US 97 in Oregon. It, ( The Mule as I call it) and I tend to like early morning driving and from about 5 or 6 in the evening until I call it a day. I simply don't like driving in the heat of the day is the reasoning and I don't like adding more issues than I can handle while dragging38 feet of trailer behind me. Ideas, suggestions, hints, tips or something on this entire issue of oil being used would really be a bonus . Thanks in advance.
 

SuperCab

Moderator
Staff member
10,068
547
Montana
Well the fact that it jumped up on the wet compression test does tend to indicate rings not sealing. But if you have a known issue with the valve seals (the smoking on initial startup) then maybe chase that down first?
 
Well Frank, without trying to sound slow or just dumb , would you steer me in some direction? I'll be ordering up my own compression tester and I guess while I'm at it the leak down tester as well. OTC has the leak down for around 70 or so $$ and Snappy has the comp tester for under 50. The initial start up smoke is so faint as to not even be seen except on a cold morning. Outside of that, there is no smoke showing while running down the road or even at idle. Oil pressure continues to be 55-60 so I'm just puling what little hair I have left , out by its roots. I appreciate your help.

Don
 

SuperCab

Moderator
Staff member
10,068
547
Montana
Have you talked with your engine builder about your problems with it? Maybe they have some suggestions?

Other than that I guess I'd run leak down test. Anything under 15% should be fine. Listen at the intake, exhaust, and valve covers/dipstick for signs of air leaking by
 
Well, as much as this may sound kinda funny, I am the engine builder. The shop that did the boring out and the "long block" on it is in Denver , and after doing some looking, is now OOB ( out of business). I took my time in doing the whole thing and did it right with some help on the finer points, the plasti-guage on the mains and rods ( bearings/brgs) , setting the shims per instruction on he valve train/rocker arms as per the cam manufacturer . This oil consumption issue hasn't been that big of an issue until like I said in the last 14 months or so. It sat all last summer as I didn't have any place to park it and my daily runner car both in the same location. SO I'm not real sure what to think. Or do for that matter but I am intelligent to know , that adding any of those so called oil additives isn't always a smart thing to do as they tend to only mask the problem until it becomes a glaring issue. I'll follow up on your suggestion on the leak down and listen as best I can and see what I come up with. Overall, with the performance as it is, I'm fairly happy with it , except for the oil loss. That just tosses me a curve ball.

Thanks!
 

DNFXDLI

The Token Canadian
Staff member
When you checked the oil, (and I'm not trying to be a smartass), it was on level ground?...and it was after the truck had sat for a short time after running?

It sure sounds like a lot of oil used in such a short distance without some sort of noticeable sign, like smoke or a big puddle.

Nothing in the antifreeze?
 
When you checked the oil, (and I'm not trying to be a smartass), it was on level ground?...and it was after the truck had sat for a short time after running?

It sure sounds like a lot of oil used in such a short distance without some sort of noticeable sign, like smoke or a big puddle.

Nothing in the antifreeze?



Level ground, as flat as you can make it and it is indeed flat. I've let it sit for up to 24 hours or more before running it again , and zero puddles, drops or anything of any kind on the ground. I've even gone so far as to place a large cardboard box under it after bring it to op temp for well over an hour , and nothing shows.

I have heard of and been told , that there's some kind of trick with a dollar bill ( or some denomination at the exhaust allowing it to flutter and if on the off chance it is even slightly pulled backwards , it's some indicator of a valve issue, usually pointing to an exhaust valve . I'm skeptical on that "trick" but it does sound viable. And I don't mind anyone being a "smart ass " , as I'm not leaving anything to chance. I'll answer any and all queries .

Vacuum gauge, dash style, along with 5 other gauges ( I can't stand idiot lights or idiot stick gauges ) shows a steady 15-20 on it while running along at 55-60 and of course it gets a tad higher when I back off he throttle while going downhill and of course the reverse is true while going up a grade of any kind. Usually 10-15 while on a grade but once I back out of the throttle it returns back to the 15-20 which is about right ever since I installed the gauge cluster ( reading left to right : Vacuum, Amps, Volts, Oil Pressure, Coolant temp and trans temp ).

My own thinking on this affair is that its an intermittent valve face to valve seat that doesn't completely seal at times. I'm open to suggestions...
 

DNFXDLI

The Token Canadian
Staff member
Damn...I really don't know what else to add.
 

DNFXDLI

The Token Canadian
Staff member
I sent a pm to a member here that might have some input for you.
 

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