Im sorry i dont get what hes getting at. Was the timing chain not replaced at the time of the rebuild?? Do you think the timing not strait Up?? or are you trying to change the cam timing??

I dont think i understand why he wants to change the timing or the timing set as its know when you want to do it all at once the chain and the gears.

Back story- in short, I am not an engine rebuilder. I had a stock rebuild done about 6 years ago, which now has about 25,000 miles on it.

At the time I was not aware of this simple upgrade. I did ask the rebuilder, and he stated that the timing set was installed as original, which would be 4 deg retarded. I am only trying to change the timing set to straight-up( 0 deg) for some improvements, which include possibly solving an overheating problem.

The Builder does not make sense in what he said to you. You set the timing of the cam strait up. or dot to dot. stock timing gears would only have one cam slot they would not have 3 like the ones some one showed. there aftermarket parts.
Now the specks to the stock cam might be 4 deg retarded Like its got a center 120 and its 4 deg retarded but that info would be on the cam card. And not be anything to do with the timing gears.
Never in all my live have a ever seen were Ford said that the cam goes in 4 deg retarded. that something you would need a cam Degree wheel for. Thats something we do when we set are race engine up. Its allways dot to dot on a ford engine.

What im trying to get at its alot of work to do that job. to find out its the way it should be.

and as for your truck overheating. It will run hotter with the cam Advance back to 0 then it would be at 4 deg retarded.

Now if the timing of the Dizz was to far advanced it would make the truck run hot. Have you check the Ignition timing?? i would check it first and turn it back 2 or 3 deg and see if that doesn't help it of fix it. before i want to take the timing chain out.

As what you will have to change if you do Advance the cam timing you will have to change the Ignition timing. Because your going to move the cam your also going to advance the Ignition time at the same time. and the carb going to needed to be re ajusted as well. engine going to want more fuel at idle. and when running. Might need to be re jetted up.

Your engine overheating might be because the cab is set up wrong and is to lean. as it sits now.

I would really look at the timeing and the carb really hard now before i dug into the engine.

fatherdoug said:

Here you go, Roy. As requested.

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A selfie!
a true gear head, what a pic!!

That's exactly right. The current timing gear only had one slot.

I guess I'm really confused! Timing is set at 10 deg BTDC. Original specs call for 12 deg BTDC.

That's the static timing Doug.....I might be out to lunch here, but my understanding was that the factory marks on the 351M and 400 was 4 deg retarded...by the factory marks.....and that a straight up gear set would change that.

That's my limited understanding also.?

We are waiting to see the Blue light

Ok look. Take #1 spark plug out of the engine. turn the engine over by hand until you can feel air push your finger off the spark plug hole. That will be the piston coming up on to the TDC mark. stop. put a small screw driver in the hole. slowly turn the engine over and feel for the piston to come to the top. And then you will feel it start going back down. turn it the other way and find that TDC

OK got it?? did it more then once?? felt it come uop and down sure you found TDC on the piston??

Ok now look at your timeing pointer on your crank!! Is it at o deg?? If not your pointer is off and your timing is off because of it. If so then loosen the bolts up or bent it until it reads right.

Is there not a built in 4 deg retard in the factory cam?..which when installed correctly with the dots would still yield that?

DNFXDLI said:

Is there not a built in 4 deg retard in the factory cam?..which when installed correctly with the dots would still yield that?

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Oh that could be IDK that. if i saw a Cam card with the centerline # and the lobe Separation # i could tell you that. But if it was and he wanted to advance it 4 deg to put center line to 0. he would need ajustable timing set and a deg wheel and understand how to go about it. Sorry but its not real ease to do the first time. and something not ease to do it the truck.

Twiceblown351 said:

I never said it was.

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It wasn't an accusation.....it is what I think I know....that the factory cam was delivered 4 deg retarded when the marks showed a correct installation....it was a question.

LOL talk before i read it right. Sorry

Twiceblown351 said:

Oh that could be IDK that. if i saw a Cam card with the centerline # and the lobe Separation # i could tell you that. But if it was and he wanted to advance it 4 deg to put center line to 0. he would need ajustable timing set and a deg wheel and understand how to go about it. Sorry but its not real ease to do the first time. and something not ease to do it the truck.

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That is what the straight up set is supposed to deal with with the factory cam....I'm aware of deg wheels etc., but for the average person a straight up timing set (as I understand) takes care of it.

Let me see if i can try to say how this works. lets say the cam has a Lobe Separation is at 112 99% of the time the Lobe Separation and the centerline is one in the same.

thats kind of a lopy cam. and make the engine hold about 12 13" of vacuum.
And the power not going to come on until 2200RPMs and lives and doesnt give up until 6800 And it in a car.. And lets say thats not enough RPMs its got big heads.Headers got a 750 carb. everything built to live and go to 7800 RPMs.
So what do you do?? You can put a deg wheel on it and retard the cam 4 deg and get the cam to act like a 108 Lobe Separation cam.
So that would be called a 112 Lobe Separation with a center line of 108
Or called a 112 Lobe Separation retarded 4.

Now like the cam in my truck I have a 110 Lobe Separation and a center line of 114. This is done because I want the power that a little Lobe Separation cam will make but i dont want the cam to act like a small Lobe Separation cam does. like doesn't make any power until 4400 RPMs. And only hold like 7" of vacuum . I want my power from 3400 and hold 18" of vacuum.
So i advance the cam 4deg and what i get is a cam that will make the power make it low in the RPMs
But what i trade for it is the lack to run the RPms way up .
So my cam was made 110 Lobe Separation with a centerline of 114. { advance 4} and what it does is starts live at 3400 and dies at 6500. but still make the power of a 110 Lobe Separation cam and still will swing more RPMs if it was a strait up 114 cam.

Twiceblown351 said:

LOL talk before i read it right. Sorry

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No sweat

Twiceblown351 said:

Let me see if i can try to say how this works. lets say the cam has a Lobe Separation is at 112 99% of the time the Lobe Separation and the centerline is one in the same.

thats kind of a lopy cam. and make the engine hold about 12 13" of vacuum.
And the power not going to come on until 2200RPMs and lives and doesnt give up until 6800 And it in a car.. And lets say thats not enough RPMs its got big heads.Headers got a 750 carb. everything built to live and go to 7800 RPMs.
So what do you do?? You can put a deg wheel on it and retard the cam 4 deg and get the cam to act like a 108 Lobe Separation cam.
So that would be called a 112 Lobe Separation with a center line of 108
Or called a 112 Lobe Separation retarded 4.

Now like the cam in my truck I have a 110 Lobe Separation and a center line of 114. This is done because I want the power that a little Lobe Separation cam will make but i dont want the cam to act like a small Lobe Separation cam does. like doesn't make any power until 4400 RPMs. And only hold like 7" of vacuum . I want my power from 3400 and hold 18" of vacuum.
So i advance the cam 4deg and what i get is a cam that will make the power make it low in the RPMs
But what i trade for it is the lack to run the RPms way up .
So my cam was made 110 Lobe Separation with a centerline of 114. { advance 4} and what it does is starts live at 3400 and dies at 6500. but still make the power of a 110 Lobe Separation cam and still will swing more RPMs if it was a strait up 114 cam.

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I get that with using a degree wheel...but what Doug (the original poster) and myself are trying to make simple is the fact that by using the straight up gear set will take the factory cam from a 4 deg retard to zero without getting into using a degree wheel.
So would that gear set that Doug posted not do the trick?

This has become much more involving than what I had thought the swapping of the gears would be. Sure learning a lot!

Somebody here is trying to sound smart. The original question does not concern a degree wheel, making it irrelevant.

A degree wheel is for verification purposes. It is not uncommon for a camshaft or timing set to be machined out of spec. Using a degree wheel finds these errors and helps fine tune the adjustment.

I degree my stuff, because I like to know, and I don't like to leave anything on the table. Your truck is a daily driver, commuter, whatever. Install it straight up and you will be fine. A recurved dist. is not a bad idea, and helps you fine tune the spark curve for towing, highway, etc... If it ran fine before, leave it. If your dist. is worn out and you're having issues, send it out to be rebuilt, and specify usage so that the rebuilder can set to compliment your truck.

Dirky said:

Somebody here is trying to sound smart. The original question does not concern a degree wheel, making it irrelevant.

A degree wheel is for verification purposes. It is not uncommon for a camshaft or timing set to be machined out of spec. Using a degree wheel finds these errors and helps fine tune the adjustment.

I degree my stuff, because I like to know, and I don't like to leave anything on the table. Your truck is a daily driver, commuter, whatever. Install it straight up and you will be fine. A recurved dist. is not a bad idea, and helps you fine tune the spark curve for towing, highway, etc... If it ran fine before, leave it. If your dist. is worn out and you're having issues, send it out to be rebuilt, and specify usage so that the rebuilder can set to compliment your truck.

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What is it with some of you guys??
Were does it say he has to use a Deg wheel. Never said he had to use one. Anywere on here.
If you reed it again. You will see I was trying to teach some people some things about cams and how they work what the # all stand for and how you could go about things.

Sorry Im not trying to sound smart. But i do know how to put a cam in with or without a Deg wheel. I have why more then one 1400HP engine under my belt.