satcom40 said:

Well if I had a buddy that could do it I'd let him but I don't and dealer is not going to do it. So I have to. I guess I could pull the turbo. will see. If someone has a better idle I'd like to hear it. Thanks John.

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What Bowtie and I have been saying all along is that the egr valve isn't the problem, you delete the egr, and you still have the problem that gummed it up to start with. You create more issues by deleting it than to leave it alone.

I haven't pulled the EGR to look at it yet so I don't know if it's getting coked up or not. It will still puke coolant when I tow my trailer up a long grade, SCT set on stock tune. I'm assuming this is from 'flash-boiling' the coolant in the EGR and not a head gasket issue since the truck runs well and there's no white smoke coming out the exhaust.

So an EGR bypass pipe is not a good idea? http://www.elitedieseleng.com/engine60.htm

I really do like my truck but my confidence when towing is not what it should be due to the puking and torque-to-yield head bolts. I only tow on the stock tune because of the head bolt stretching issue.

blacksnapon said:

What Bowtie and I have been saying all along is that the egr valve isn't the problem, you delete the egr, and you still have the problem that gummed it up to start with. You create more issues by deleting it than to leave it alone.

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So just how does deleting the exhaust flow into the EGR cooler & engine cause more problems?

Blackhat, you missed the first part, "you still have the problem that gummed it up to start with". Excessive oil in the intake, excessive heat in the exhaust, excessive coolant heat, poor circulation in the oil cooler. None are repaired by deleting the egr. What I'm saying, fix the problem, don't treat the symptom. As far as problems caused, remember the pcm takes measurements from several sensors and compares them, making the adjustments in injector timing and duty cycle, adjustments in turbo vgt. The more issues: now you need aftermarket tuning to correct the "hardware" changes. Issues of warranty, issues of potential more heat in the exhaust. They used a lot more thinking trying to balance the overall operation of the engine than just delete it, then its all gone!

blacksnapon said:

Blackhat, you missed the first part, "you still have the problem that gummed it up to start with". Excessive oil in the intake, excessive heat in the exhaust, excessive coolant heat, poor circulation in the oil cooler. None are repaired by deleting the egr. What I'm saying, fix the problem, don't treat the symptom. As far as problems caused, remember the pcm takes measurements from several sensors and compares them, making the adjustments in injector timing and duty cycle, adjustments in turbo vgt. The more issues: now you need aftermarket tuning to correct the "hardware" changes. Issues of warranty, issues of potential more heat in the exhaust. They used a lot more thinking trying to balance the overall operation of the engine than just delete it, then its all gone!

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Vince i do agree you cannot just unplug the EGR valve or just install an EGR up-pipe delete. When you modify any engine you have to look at the whole picture, to determine everything that needs to be done to make the modification successful. I think many people believe they can just unplug the EGR valve or any sensor, or install a delete pipe and not address the PCM programming. This is no different than people installing in-line fueling boxes (which i despise btw).
With all modern computer controlled engines any modification made to the engine must be addressed in the PCM programming as well.

If you have an excessive fueling problem (ie leaking injector) or excessive oil problem then yes they will cause additional coking problems and need to be fixed. Here is the big picture though, currently multiple 6.0 engines are having EGR problems with no excessive fueling or oil problems. BTH himself said he changes on average 1 EGR valve per week or approximately 50-60 per year. That is just one 6.0 tech in one Ford dealership. That is some really crappy odds. I understand poor fuel quality can play into this as well, but the average consumer has little control over the fuel quality available in there area.

By removing the EGR system you eleminate or greatly reduce many of the problems caused by it, ie EGR cooler failure, EGR valve failure, Map sensor plugging, Intake valve coking, Intake manifold contamination from fuel, exhaust and oil.

Yes you need a tuner with properly written custom tunes to do this mod properly. Extra heat in the combustion chamber is a good thing, it will increase perfromance and fuel economy. As for excess heat in the engine, actually engine operating temps will drop with the EGR cooler & its exhaust gas removed. You will get slightly higher pre-turbo temps, but not enough to cause any problems. In addition with higher combustion chamber temperatures, you will also get a more complete burn, less soot and unburned fuel out the tail pipe, along with the elevated EGT temps this will reduce coking on the turbo, EBP sensor and exhaust valves.

FMC engineers chose this path for one reason, perceived cost to emplement and meeting the EPA rules. The engineers thought process was driven by accountants and the bottom line plain and simple. The engineers main goal was to make the engine meet EPA standards as cheaply as possible and last to the end of the 100k warranty period. I do not believe they fathomed the amount of EGR related failures in their design. If every 6.0 tech in the country changes 1 EGR valve a week the cost is astronomical. They keep trying to redesign the EGR system to get it to work and last the 100k warranty period. The EGR system is the "problem" not the solution.

Diesel engines should easily run 250-500k miles without major problems as long as routine maintenance is applied.

The two main problems with the 6.0 is the EGR system and the heads/head bolts.

IMO to solve the biggest problems with the 6.0 and increase its potential to run 250-500k miles with routine maintenance is to perform the following mods:

EGR up-pipe delete, EGR valve turned off, CCV re-routed to atmosphere, Coolant filter, replace OEM muffler with a Walker BTM or equivalent (will reduce EGT), SCT XcalII/III with custom tunes to allow for EGR removal & increase Torqueshift line pressure to eliminate factory programmed slippage & reduce heat load on the transmission, Fuel cross-over line or return regulated system (eleminate fuel starvation at #8 injector, reduce cackle, this was also a problem with the 7.3).
ARP headstuds if and when the head gaskets fail.

I am not a fan of using a tuner to increase Hp & Torque numbers for a diesel but do believe in the use of them to overcome the short comings of FMC programming and to increase the longevity of the 6.0.

Yes these along with any mods to the 6.0 may cause warranty issues, and modifiying any emissions component puts the proffesional mechanic in violation of federal law even if all they do is work on a vehicle with a modified emissions system.

Personnally i believe in the future you will see the EGR system taken out of the design of diesel engines and replaced with NOx adsorbtion or Selective Catalytic Reduction.

I will say this to anyone thinking of modifying your vehicles engine (especially the 6.0). With all modern computer controlled vehicles, any changes made must include reprogramming the PCM to address these changes and this includes installing different diameter tires.

Remember, egr valves are just that, a valve. They are incapable of manufacturing oily deposits. Egr coolers fail for some reason (excessive egts from overboosting, coolant interruption, and yes, some from manufacturing defects). The fix isnt solely to remove it, you need to find the cause of egr failure.

blacksnapon said:

Remember, egr valves are just that, a valve. They are incapable of manufacturing oily deposits. Egr coolers fail for some reason (excessive egts from overboosting, coolant interruption, and yes, some from manufacturing defects). The fix isnt solely to remove it, you need to find the cause of egr failure.

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I agree with that 100%, but after i fix the cause, i am removing the EGR system.

The lower combustion temperatures do contribute to excessive moisture, unburned fuel, oil residue etc in the exhaust stream. The EGR system is responsible for the lower combustion temperatures (reduced compression ratio has contributed to this also) along with re-introducing all of this crap back into the intake system, combustion chamber, turbo and exhaust system.

Yes EGR coolers fail for multiple reasons, excessive heat is the killer (why they used silver solder in the EGR cooler is beyond me). Remove the exhaust through the EGR cooler properly and you remove the heat, also installing a Coolant filtration system will help prevent premature plugging of the oil cooler.

Coolant filtration is always a good idea no matter what kind of vehicle you drive. I too have replaced many egr valves, less now since I started looking for the cause, before automatically replacing it. I'll do proper egr valve performance diagnostics before anything.

OK guys I under stand what you saying about the EGR I don't have any problem with my truck. I just don't like the EGR system itself. I have it unplug and I'm running Matt tune to turn off the EGR system I just want to stop the Exhaust heat to the EGR Cooler y using a block off plate. this plate goes between the EGR cooler and the Exhaust pipe Would like to know the beat way to install this block off plate Or get to this joint/clamp point.
Thanks John