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Dtc P0021

Thanks again for the welcome, I really need some help, I'm working on an 2005 f150 5.4 3V, long story short, I've replaced the crank and bearings, timing chains and tentioners, cam plasers, guides, VCT solenoids, cps's, IMRC actuator. It's my son truck, and I won't have to remind him again about oil changes and levels, anyway, after all that the truck runs good, but I'm getting this code P0021. I'm being told that the driver side cam is advanced one tooth. Now looking at the chains and sprockets, the marked links on the chains are in the same position on both left and right sprockets, I recall timing the engine on rebuild and if all the marks were the same then, shoulden't they be the same now? What's wrong with this motor? Thanks for the help, I have changed the VCT and the cps several time's same code.
 

blacksnapon

Moderator
Staff member
HK15 KOER DTCS P0011, P1381, P0012, P1383, P0021, P1386, P0022 AND P1388:
Note: Only diagnose VCT actuator and circuit indicated by the DTC.

Oil contamination in VCT systems can cause positioning errors. VCT systems require an oil filter specific to the application.

Check the operation of the VCT solenoid and check for a stuck or sticking solenoid valve caused by contamination. If the valve is stuck, check the spider bracket for contamination prior to installing a new solenoid.
Check vehicle oil filter identification for proper type.
Engine at normal operating temperature.
Clear the DTCs.
KOER Self Test.
Check for KOER DTCs:
Are DTCs P0011, P1381, P0012, P1383, P0021, P1386, P0022 or P1388 present?
Yes
Key in OFF position. INSTALL a new VCT actuator. Unable to duplicate or identify the fault at this time.
No
GO to Z1 .
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are experiencing aftermarket oil filters breaking down internally depositing silicone pieces inside oil passages in the heads. This starves the head and actuators of oil.
 

lil_dq

Let 'er eat boys!
6,933
265
Union, MO
Vince is the man!
 
Thanks Blacksnapon, I'm a half ***** mechanic at best, what you posted probably means alot, but most was greek to me. There was a lot of debris in the oil before rebuild, the engine was cleaned, and a new Motorcraft oil filter was installed, and changed and changed again. I have chaged the VCT solenoid 3 times, same result, today at the advice of a ford service manager, I retarded the driver side cam one tooth. So far so good, broke an ingnition coil in the process, swapped one out with one laying on the work bench, but I think it's bad also, none the less, the truck ran good with no codes. Gonna change the oil and filter tomorrow, and the fuel filter and #6 coil. I'll let you know how it turns out. Thanks
 
Well, after changing the coil with a new one the truck still idled poorly, drove it for a while and the code returned, so if one tooth of retard didn't do it maybe 2 would, it didn't, truck ran like crap, very poor idle, one bank lean the other rich and then a P0022 code, over retarded. I pulled the valve cover and advanced it back to where I started from. Truck runs real good but still the P0021 code. I had my Actron OBD II scanner on and got a freeze frame on it but it really doesn't tell me anything, I'm sure the answer is there, I just can't see it, not sure what I'm looking at. What now? Not sure it matters but the truck runs at high idle when cold, I don't think it should, 1500 rpm. I'm lost.
 

d-kuzmen

Master Ford Tech
2,109
79
Connecticut
When you changed the VCT phaser and solinoid didyou change the "valve body" that the solinoid goes into it bolts to the front of the head? These often get gunked up and don't allow the phaser to work properly. Another thing you may want to check if you say one side runs rich and the other lean, I would recheck your base timing on the truck I have seen people time one side of the engine correctly and the other is 180 degrees off, truck will still run but not great.
 
Yes the valve body was changed, I opened it up the other day to make sure the screen wasn't fouled, looked great. As for the timing, it's right, I am sure of that. The truck runs great, just not perfect.
 

d-kuzmen

Master Ford Tech
2,109
79
Connecticut
If it has to retard the timing to make it be where it's "supposed" to be then when it accually needs to retard it during normal operation it won't be able to because it's already used up its "travel" on the gear if that makes sense to you. If this were my truck I would be pulling the timing cover and rechecking my base timing I know its a pain but if you have all new VCT phaser solinoid and valve block that would make me beleive the base timing could be off. You probably already know this but when you time these engines you should have the crank timing mark at 6 o'clock pass side head will be around 11 o'clock and diver side around 1o'clock this will be a good starting point. with the chains off lay them on a bench and pull them tight mark 1 link on one end and the other end will get 2 links marked, place the single mark on the crank and then put the cam mark between the 2 marks on the chain you will need to move the cam to align the mark on the gear to the chains. There is a L and R on the cam gears that the chain mark needs to be on.


timing_chain.jpg




crank.jpg





cam.jpg
 

73F100Shortbed

That's how we roll!
5,937
320
NJ
I would pull the cover too. I did headgaskets once and swore up and down the timing was right. Truck had tons of power, ran great, etc. Customer's wife complained that it didn't idle just quite right. I would say a lot of people wouldn't have even noticed, but we pulled the cover and it was like 1/2 tooth off on one or some hardly noticable amount, but it was indeed off.
 
Thanks, but say I do pull the cover to check the timing, how will I know if the timing is off or not? The timing chain has an odd number links, therefore every revolution the timing links come up in a different spot. As it is now, I can pull the driverside valve cover, roll the motor over till the colored links come up near the timing mark on the sprocket, say one link between the timing mark and the two links, using an inspection mirror, I'm able to see the same condition on the passenger side. Wouldn't that indicate that the cams are timed alike? And if thats the case, if I were out of time it would be at the crank, one tooth at the crank would be two on the cam, and I have already retarded the cam two teeth once and it ran like crap so I put it back, I won't lie, I really don't want to pull the cover, but if thats what it takes to fix it I will. I just don't think it's out of time. Does that make sense?
 

73F100Shortbed

That's how we roll!
5,937
320
NJ
Does it look exactly like the picture above?
 

d-kuzmen

Master Ford Tech
2,109
79
Connecticut
The only real way to tell is when you pull the cover off I would set the crank with the timing mark facing down and cam marks facing up, then mark the link on the crank at the timing mark and links on the cam timing mark then you would need to remove the chain if you stretch the chain out the marks should be on each end as in the picture I honestly don't know how many links between the marks there should be so I can't tell you to just count. IF they don't look like the picture then it was timed incorrectly. Everything you are saying kind of leads to a base timing issue, if you've changed the vct solinod, valveblock and vct phaser there really isn't anything else other than base timeing unless the wiring to the vct solinoid was shorted allowing oil to the vct phaser all the time.
 
Well, I really don't think its out of time but, I'll pull the cover to verify, now, should the timing be right, what then? I really do appreciate ya'll helping, thanks!
 
Just pulled the timing cover, rolled the motor over 38 times by hand till the marks came up right, both of the single marked links came up correct on the crank, and both of the double marked links came up on the cams. I counted the links back to the marks at first and they came up right, but to make sure, we rolled the motor over till they all came up right, I'm stumped. The driver side cam phaser is the new one, and it has an L and R on it, I have it aligned with the L, that is correct isn't it, the other side has a L and a fat dash or maybe an I and is aligned on it, according to the book this is correct. What the hell? I'm losing my mind, there has to be something else.
 
Well, I pu the truck back together, and went for a test drive, guess what, P0021, cam over advanced bank 2, still. I had to drive it to church Sunday, on the way back pulled into Wal-mart, as I was turning into a parking spot I noticed the truck was missing, so I put in park and rev'd the motor a little and all was fine, but i notice the overdrive off light was on, pushed the button on the shifter and the light went out, checked the codes, P0021 and P0022, cam over advanced and over retarded bank 2. Since leaving Wal-mart I've put 3 drive cycles on it with no codes or pending codes, truck is back in closed loop at hiway speeds. Did it fix it's self, did the PCM have to relearn cam position since the cam phaser failure? I hope and pray this thing is fixed, taking it to the beach this weekend, I guess we'll see. Thanks ya'll.
 

73F100Shortbed

That's how we roll!
5,937
320
NJ
Hope it stays fixed for you. Enjoy the beach!
 
Me too brother, and the beach will be great, fishing, grilling, and hopefully not turning wrenches for a weekend, sounds good anyway. Thanks
 

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