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Short term energy solution

mrxlh

Oilfield Trash
5,904
430
Stigler, OK
I have been thinking about all the technology out there as far as energy independence from the middle east is concerned. The only one that excites me is CNG. (compressed natural gas) Ethanol and Bio Diesel need subsudies to compete head to head with their petroleum counterparts. Hydrogen fuel cells creates a logistical nightmare. Natural Gas is everywhere. Fueling stations could be installed at your house if you have gas service. Pipelines that have ben in service forever, are already in place. With the discoveries of the Fayette, Barnett, Marcelles, Haynseville, and Bossier shales, we have a ton of gas that is "found" but has no market for. Therefore depressing the price. When gasoline was $4+ a gallon and gas was at $9mcf, the equivilant would have been around $2.80 per gallon mark. Gas is now half of what it was then which would put it at the $1.60 mark right now. Sound good to anyone? There are systems that are true "dual fuel" meaning that the vehicle can run off of gasoline and or CNG without any input from the driver. All automatic.
 

O'Rattlecan

Redneck Prognosticator
26,687
797
Belton, MO
So when does Ford implement this option? :D

Ryan
 

mrxlh

Oilfield Trash
5,904
430
Stigler, OK
Good question. The only problem or drawback is the space (physical dimmentions) of the tanks. Which means a vehicle has to be designed around the fuel tanks. Retrofits on larger vehicles is easy as fas as space under the vehicle, or voids. The only problem I see for Ford is the money crunch they are in. As much as I hate T. Boone Pickens, he actually has a real and viable short term solution. Problem is Obama and the new Kenny Boy (Salazar) don't want to produce energy we have here. So I guess Ford needs to start designing sails to put on the new vehicles. That way we can use wind power.
 

mrxlh

Oilfield Trash
5,904
430
Stigler, OK
Little windmills like on those beanie caps.

Ryan
Yeah but with all the hot air from the current administration, they appearantly work just fine on there cars. 'badachang'
 
ford has several bi fuel vehicles out right now you can go down to a ford dealer and order most any truck that runs off of cng and gasoline the only down fall is the size of tanks they are both small and refuel stations arent eveyrwhere the ones for your house are expensive 3 to 5 grand there are also several conversion kits for the ford trucks out there you can get full conversion kits or split you get more miles between fuel ups if you do the full conversion me and a friend researched it last year there is also a tax rebate for switching over to cng and the savings on the fuel cost will pay for the conversion (after a few years)
 

mrxlh

Oilfield Trash
5,904
430
Stigler, OK
Well update time. We have 2 CNG fueling stations in the area now, and currently they are buildig a 3rd 2 blocks from my house. Most of the gas companies here are converting their fleets over to CNG.

I got a chance to talk to a guy driving one a few weeks ago while getting my oil changed. Late model Chevy LWB 4X4 13 gallon CNG tank he is getting 250 miles per tank, that is 19 MPG. Cost of 13 gallons of CNG here in Shreveport $22.75. or $1.75 per gallon. Its even cheaper if you get a compressor and fuel from your house. The other station in Coushatta is at $2.11 so it would be $27.43.

Roughly double the figures of what your current tank capacity (20-30 gallon tanks on half ton pickups anyway)

Capacity right now is the problem, but as I said before, its a ton easier to design the car to fit the tank, not the other way around. A 13 gallon tank takes up roughly the space of a truck bed tool box.

Waiting until they come out with a true dual fuel conversion for diesel.
 

mrxlh

Oilfield Trash
5,904
430
Stigler, OK
With the latest EPA approved conversion kits and newer vehicle programming, your immidate savings is 40%. Oil change intervals go UP when using CNG, as it is much cleaner. No one running CNG should be changing their oil at less than 7500 miles. So there is a maintenance savings as well. CNG is pretty close to equal so maybe 85-95%.

Sidenote CNG in OK is @ $.88 per gallon right now. Talk about savings.
 
Waiting until they come out with a true dual fuel conversion for diesel.[/QUOTE]

There are some dual fuel buses operating in the North island of N.Z which have been going as a pilot trial for some years now - CNG seems to work better when it is run in a diesel conversion - in fact in the early nineties when i worked in CHCH the chch city council ran most of there parks and service vehicles on CNG they extracted from the sewerage plant - worked well until politics (probably bribes) got involved and canned the project.
There is a company across the ditch in Australia that markets (cant remember the name right now but will lookit up) a diesel lpg system - they were developing a cng/diesel system and had been having some sucessful trials.
 

mrxlh

Oilfield Trash
5,904
430
Stigler, OK

mrxlh

Oilfield Trash
5,904
430
Stigler, OK
So can I fill up at home if I put a gas outlet near the driveway.? I would love to be able to plug in the gas line when I get home and fill'er up.

Yes. The cost of the compressor is kind of high, but unlike pump prices, the gas to your house is regulated and does not change daily. If you have local access to fueling stations, and the price is cheap enough, skip the fueling station.
 

DNFXDLI

The Token Canadian
Staff member
Several bus lines up here tried it 20 some years ago, never did catch on very much but given the fuel costs now, it could change.
 

mrxlh

Oilfield Trash
5,904
430
Stigler, OK
Well with the price per gallon in OK. being $.88 right now and yielding almost the same mileage as gasoline, its a no brainer for alot of people to convert. Heck even at $2.11 here, plus less maintenance (less frequent oil changes) costs you will see between 40-50% reduced cost in fuel expenses. Tax credits make conversions pretty affordable as well.
 

DNFXDLI

The Token Canadian
Staff member
It might have been the combination of infrastructure and retrofitting the buses..and thinking about it more, it would have been around 1980-81 ish.
 

mrxlh

Oilfield Trash
5,904
430
Stigler, OK
Duncan, the old propane and nat gas conversion carburators were at best slightly more reliable than a candle in a windstorm. Fast foreward to fuel injection and computer controlled ignition and fuel curves and wham, instant success.

Problems with carburators (have not changed much since the 40's as far as nat gas and propane go) is they have a tendancy to fuel flood really easily. (A/F gets screwy when trying to start as in way too much F and not near enough A) In gas compression the first basi rule of operating is, if it don't start on the first try, close the fuel valve til it hits and then open it up fully.
 

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