i have a buddy that has a 04 superduty 6.0 and he's been getting some wierd results from his coolant pressure gauge..

he did head studs gaskets, brand new heads straight from international etc.. and he said his psi was for a lil while 5, then couple weeks it went up to 9 then 12 and now its up to 14....

he's starting to get worried... idk much about them but if im not mistaken the psi shouldnt ever go about a 10 or so right? and 16 is the technical limit aint it?

Man, that pressure steady increasing doesn't sound good... I think the max psi for the cap is printed on it.

Did he change the egr cooler? Alot of head gaskets were changed under warranty only to come back a week later for an EGR cooler.

mrxlh said:

Did he change the egr cooler? Alot of head gaskets were changed under warranty only to come back a week later for an EGR cooler.

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he has a EGR delete kit on it.. idk how that would affect the EGR cooler.. etc.. but idk..

nflfreak43 said:

he has a EGR delete kit on it.. idk how that would affect the EGR cooler.. etc.. but idk..

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Egr deletes can cause trouble in other ways. The oil cooler is what causes the egr cooler to fail. When you delete, the oil cooler is still there, heating up the coolant with nothing to show its going bad. Studs are not a guarantee of the end of problems by no means.

Exactly, new gaskets and studs will not correct a warped block or heads. I know the heads have a proceedure for checking flatness, however I know of a few blocks that got hot enough and had torch out issues which required re-decking the block.

mrxlh said:

Exactly, new gaskets and studs will not correct a warped block or heads. I know the heads have a proceedure for checking flatness, however I know of a few blocks that got hot enough and had torch out issues which required re-decking the block.

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He mentioned that he had new heads.

He didn't mention if the block was checked for flatness or torching. He also didn't mention if the new heads were checked for flatness. As IH was sending out new heads that were not in spec for flatness.

Ever hear of a torque plate? You use one when you bore an engine. It was found that the block actually warps when applying torque to the head bolts. Bore without it, ok alone, as soon as the heads are bolted down, the cylinders aren't round and the block isn't straight. Bore with the plate, bolting the head down you'll have a more perfect cylinder wall and deck surface. Now, what is the selling point of the head studs........MORE TORQUE!!!!! The bolts are designed to maintain clamping force over a wide range of circumstances, including wear on the gasket surfaces. Its kind of like spring pressure.

Does your buddy happen to be 1puglife since he posted this exact thing in a video on youtube?

no... actually it aint... very similar trucks though... its extremely similar... kinda creepy...

but no.. my friend actually texted me today and said the head gasket blew again...

so i guess he's gonna be having them done again...

That sucks

yep... dont know what happened... said it just went

POOF... into a cloud of smoke and actually shut down on him.. he was stranded...

blacksnapon said:

what is the selling point of the head studs........MORE TORQUE!!!!! The bolts are designed to maintain clamping force over a wide range of circumstances, including wear on the gasket surfaces. Its kind of like spring pressure.

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First off, I'm not trying to bust your chops, but I think something should be clarified.


Head studs aren't torqued to a greater value than the stock headbolts.


What you should have said is "MAINTAIN TORQUE".


The main reason to install studs over the factory bolts is that it's a proven fact that the factory head bolts are prone to stretching over time and thus allowing the HG's to leak. ARP studs don't suffer from this.

UNRULEE said:

First off, I'm not trying to bust your chops, but I think something should be clarified.


Head studs aren't torqued to a greater value than the stock headbolts.


What you should have said is "MAINTAIN TORQUE".

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The bolts are engineered to maintain torque longer. The gaskets are multi-steel construction. These gaskets are used to allow "movement". Back in the 70s, they used one piece gaskets that worked fine. You wanted to "glue" them down. Ever use copper seal gasket spray? Yes, its a cast iron block, and cast iron heads, but the rocker box is aluminum. The head bolts go through the rocker box as well. The difference in metals is the problem. Expansion and contraction at different rates is why the change in head gasket construction. Remember, we're working in thousandths in movement. Thousandths, but there is movement. Does this create problems instantly? No. The TTY bolts act as springs holding the head down, allowing the movement, then clamping back down. The studs, well what you start with, is all you get.

UNRULEE said:

The main reason to install studs over the factory bolts is that it's a proven fact that the factory head bolts are prone to stretching over time and thus allowing the HG's to leak. ARP studs don't suffer from this.

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Have you actually seen the bolts after stretching? I will just for you, set a new one next to an old one and take a picture. Now mind you, this is after 191,000 miles. Clarify??????I dont think so.

blacksnapon said:

Clarify??????I dont think so.

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But..........................you just did.

You explained it fairly well, and I am intersted in seeing a comparison pic.

UNRULEE said:

But..........................you just did.

You explained it fairly well, and I am intersted in seeing a comparison pic.

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look in the 6.0 headgasket pictures thread. The bolts are both sitting on a bench. Just showing that physically there is no discernable difference in length.

As stated before, I'm not looking for a fight, just want some insite from the "other" side of the Ford 6.0 market (ie, dealership). I respect the fact that you are a Ford tech. That being said...................................

OK that's fine the bolts are the same length, sitting on a bench........how about at 28psi of boost with 10k lbs behind the truck? What do the factory 100,000+ mile (or even the zero mile) headbolts look like then? I will almost bet that they "grow" in length under these conditions.

I really don't see how a bolt that acts as a "spring" can can keep a head planted where it should be on a block in constant varying amounts of boost and cylinder pressure.

UNRULEE said:

As stated before, I'm not looking for a fight, just want some insite from the "other" side of the Ford 6.0 market (ie, dealership). I respect the fact that you are a Ford tech. That being said...................................

OK that's fine the bolts are the same length, sitting on a bench........how about at 28psi of boost with 10k lbs behind the truck? What do the factory 100,000+ mile (or even the zero mile) headbolts look like then? I will almost bet that they "grow" in length under these conditions.

I really don't see how a bolt that acts as a "spring" can can keep a head planted where it should be on a block in constant varying amounts of boost and cylinder pressure.

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Sitting on the bench, one can't see any difference. The difference comes from the "spring" pressure. As an example, take an ordinary spring, extend and contract it several hundred times. The spring ability is diminished somewhat. Theres where the difference is. Its a metalurgical thing. With studs, whatever you start with, thats all you get. No adjustment for metalurgical weakening (lessened however because of the properties of the studs, but still there), and any gradual loosening of the fasteners and/or the studs themselves. You have to consider any distortion of the block surfaces too. Because of the high compression and heat developed in a diesel motor, there is both side to side and vertical movement in the head/block mating surface (in the thousandths, but movement nonetheless). Studs will stop it for a short time, but it will start again. How long depends on customer driving habits. Is there a built in life expectancy for bolts, sure. 5.4s and 4.6s are thought to go for 150k. I honestly dont know any figures for the diesel (Navistar isn't very "loose" releasing information). But the bolts are in fact a better option for everyday truck use. When you get into high performance applications, different story. Then you start talking about changing composition of the block as well.

Nice job explaining this in laymens terms Vince. Lee, there is a fix for this and it does include studs, however, there is not enough money in this specific issue to completely solve the problem on 6.0 heads. The inhearent problem has been solved by a ton of people way smarter than me about 30 years ago, however, again there is not enough call for it. It would include a head gasket re-design, a flat steel fire ring and a spacer plate for coolant passages with o-rings. In order for this to all "work" correctly the head would have to be torqued in 1 shot, meaning all the studs would be streched using hydraulic rams and then snugging the nuts. The releasing the pressure all at once and re-sstreching and checking the snuggness again.