Had a 2012 focus towed in today. Message on the dash: P/S disabled, stop safely now! Vehicle had no power steering. The fix...........reprogram the PSCM (power steering control module).

So, uhm. You cant drive with out P/S or will it damage the system?

That or people are too stupid to know how...

dragogt said:

That or people are too stupid to know how...

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I'll agree to an extent with this, but car mechanics isn't everybody's forte. But I will say that folks are getting less adept at problem solving and critical thinking since so many things are getting automated and things happen just because they always have. No one cares how this system or that system works...just that it spits out what's expected when requested.

I meant how to drive with out P/S, tell most people now days that your car/ truck does not have p/s and they will look at you like your stupid...


I.E. A bad pump/ rack or a manual box...

Vince-

Is that electric steering a servo, or is it electric over hydraulic?

john112deere said:

Vince-

Is that electric steering a servo, or is it electric over hydraulic?

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All electric. Computer controlled.

While I realize aircraft have had fly by wire for years, just unnerves me to think of a vehicle completely in computer/electrical control like that, I like direct linkage with electric assist... Maybe I have dealt with too many electrical failures over the years. Also, aircraft don't deal with the corrosion issues the ground vehicles do.

Fellro said:

Also, aircraft don't deal with the corrosion issues the ground vehicles do.

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What makes you think that? They have alot of corrosion issues as well as fatigue issues due to rapid pressure changes and the stress of hundreds of thousands of pounds landing several times a day. Just a thought.

BTW- Most of the little guys, like the Cessna 172 I fly, still have cables linking to the controls. Those cables are also prone to corrosion. I haven't had any issues personally, but I've heard stories from other pilots of landing without controls working because a cable snapped.

I say that because they don't have road dirt and nasty crud to deal with. Sure, there is still corrosion troubles, but not the same level as ground transportation. Notice I didn't address the fatigue as being different, because they are similar, just from different sources.
Also, inspections are required on aircraft. Corroded cables should realistically have been noticed before failure... Yes, I realize they run inside the body, but if they are known issues, they need to be checked. Ground based vehicles many times get no inspection at all. The fly by wire is also many times redundant on the military and commercial aircraft, while only one set of wires will be on ground vehicles. I may not be completely involved in the aviation field, but I have some knowledge. Ag tractors also have no direct linkage, so when the hydraulics fail, so does your steering, as well as the brakes. Makes for a fun ride if you are moving and the motor dies.

Fellro said:

I say that because they don't have road dirt and nasty crud to deal with. Sure, there is still corrosion troubles, but not the same level as ground transportation.

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You obviously haven't seen the geese and ducks they hit! Talk about nasty and dirty!!

ROFL

seems silly to have something as small as a focus with power steering. its about impossible to find anything basic anymore, manual windows,steering and transmissions have gone by the wayside. sure theres times when power steering is nice, even desireable, but for the most part, esp on a less than 2,000 pound car, its just a unnessary luxury that can require repair later. i knew of a 3 year old dakota that had a bad rack. power steering to the left, non power to the right. and when a rack system is down its alot harder to steer than any old-school manual steering ever was.

on those itty bitty cars, they have itty bitty steering wheels and that makes it a little tougher to turn for small people.

If it takes too much effort to turn the wheel, no one's going to buy it.

Ryan

racsan said:

seems silly to have something as small as a focus with power steering. its about impossible to find anything basic anymore, manual windows,steering and transmissions have gone by the wayside. sure theres times when power steering is nice, even desireable, but for the most part, esp on a less than 2,000 pound car, its just a unnessary luxury that can require repair later. i knew of a 3 year old dakota that had a bad rack. power steering to the left, non power to the right. and when a rack system is down its alot harder to steer than any old-school manual steering ever was.

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Our base Kia Rio doesn't have Power Steering. It's a major objection to overcome- which stuns me, because the car doesn't need it. IF you remember how to drive a car that doesn't have it.

Ernie i see your point, a 2k lb car is cake to drive with out power steering IF you know how!

But honestly. Who these days knows how to drive with out power steering? Of those people, who is going to be buying a base model Kia Rio? I can imagine that selling it with out p/s is a bit of an issue... As for fly by wire, ive been on a back hoe last 2 weeks that electrically actuates the hydraulic cylinders. No feel makes for a hard time grading.

...maybe im just old and power steering is a "option" to me. ive driven a few vehicles without it, and aside from having to turn the wheel nearly 4 revolutions to make a 90 degree corner (71 bronco) it just didnt seem to be a big deal to me not having power steering. i suppose its quite possible many (maybe even most) have never driven anything but a power steering equipped vehicle. if i was in the market for a small new compact and i could chose, id probly go with the non-power steering without alot of thought. i spose the wife would feel differntly..ha ha.

Truckin4life said:

Ernie i see your point, a 2k lb car is cake to drive with out power steering IF you know how!

But honestly. Who these days knows how to drive with out power steering? Of those people, who is going to be buying a base model Kia Rio? I can imagine that selling it with out p/s is a bit of an issue... As for fly by wire, ive been on a back hoe last 2 weeks that electrically actuates the hydraulic cylinders. No feel makes for a hard time grading.

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Oddly the last one I sold went to a retired couple as her car. It's a third vehicle for them, and she's driven withoout PS for over 50 years. As a sidenote- the other oddity in the Kia biz is the number of check writers we get. Never seen so many cash deals on new cars in my life.

Im not saying they wont sell, but the people who dont know of anything BUT power steering. Or the one's who have been spoon fed from a silver paddle there whole life....

racsan said:

its about impossible to find anything basic anymore, manual windows,steering and transmissions have gone by the wayside.

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I was absolutely blown away at what was considered standard when I went to purchase my Mustang. I lay out a list of things I wanted included as luxuries since I'd be driving the vehicle 120 miles a day, and they replied with 'sir, all those are standard items'...a tad embarassing, because everything I wanted was on the basic model. Made me wonder how in the hell anyone needed the other 20k in potential options that could have come with my car.

racsan said:

...maybe im just old and power steering is a "option" to me. ive driven a few vehicles without it, and aside from having to turn the wheel nearly 4 revolutions to make a 90 degree corner (71 bronco) it just didnt seem to be a big deal to me not having power steering. i suppose its quite possible many (maybe even most) have never driven anything but a power steering equipped vehicle. if i was in the market for a small new compact and i could chose, id probly go with the non-power steering without alot of thought. i spose the wife would feel differntly..ha ha.

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I'm there with you...I've had the steering systems plugged off on my Bronco and 250 before, and while a little more difficult, it blows my mind that someone can't live without P/S on a 3-4,000lb vehicle with sub 30" tires. I understand creature comforts and disposable income, but I just can't believe how pampered society has become.